Linux-Advocacy Digest #501, Volume #33 Wed, 11 Apr 01 05:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) (GreyCloud)
So much for modules in Linux! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: So much for modules in Linux! (Donn Miller)
Re: another example of why Linux is brain dead. (Jarko Vihriala)
Re: Has Linux anything to offer ? (GreyCloud)
Re: t. max devlin: kook (GreyCloud)
Re: Inktomi Webmap -- Apache has 60% now. (GreyCloud)
Re: Article: Windows XP won't support USB 2.0 (GreyCloud)
Blame it all on Microsoft (unicat)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:12:23 -0700
Roger Perkins wrote:
>
> Here is another example of you ignorance and inability to discuss. The
> quote is "Thou shalt not murder", if you have studied at all. Jesus also
> said "Render unto Caesar..." which can be interpreted to mean do your duty
> to you government. Soldiers do that.
>
> Oh yeah... Roberto...
>
> Roger
> AIRBORNE!
>
This ol' leg has to agree with the above. My memory is poor, but I've
read a similar parallel in the Bagavhad Gita in regards to Arjuna.
It had to do with ones obligations in a war.
> "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > billh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >"T. Max Devlin"
> > >
> > >> >Read Exodus and Numbers. God instructed the Israelites to wage war
> and
> > >kill
> > >> >entire populations. The quibble is using one verse from scripture to
> > >state
> > >> >all killing is wrong, when in fact, use of that one verse of scripture
> to
> > >> >support such a position is wrong.
> > >>
> > >> That's my point. God's instructions did not contradict this verse,
> > >> though shalt not murder (kill), because God gets to decide who is
> human,
> > >> and anybody the Isrealites want to kill were simply excluded from the
> > >> definition.
> > >
> > >LOL!!! Incredulous. You truly are clueless.
> >
> > How about this: "thou shall not kill" is a commandment from god unto
> > humans. Those commandments are intended to affect the behaviour of free
> > willing humans[1].However, god is not bound by that commandment,
> > and humans lacking free will are not bound by that commandment.
> >
> > God has been known to regret his acts in the past[2], so god could
> > possibly be repealing, either for a period of time or permanently,
> > his previous order (the commandments). However, if we accept
> > that gos is ordering him to kill, he can not possibly be giving him
> > a false order, because god doesn't lie.
> >
> > Thus, if a human kills under specific command from God, he is excepted
> > from the commandment, because he is excepted from it specifically by
> > god, the only one who can[3].
> >
> >
> > Like it?
> >
> > [1] If a human is not free willing, there is no need for god to give
> > him commandments, is there?
> >
> > [2] See covenant.
> >
> > [3] No lower authority can declare a commandment void, agreed?
> >
> > --
> > Roberto Alsina
--
V
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: So much for modules in Linux!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:33:26 GMT
I'm using SuSE 7.1 Personal after all my struggles with Mandrake 7.2.
That is not to say there aren't any problems. There are.
In order to get my network working I'm currently starting up DHCP manually.
I descovered that SuSE telephone support doesn't cover anything except
basic installation. Apparently, getting your network up is not considered
basic. Oh well.
I was told to put "dhcpcd eth1" in my boot.local file. I tried this. It
doesn't work.
Why doesn't it work? I have two network cards. Both are supported, both are
modules. If I let the system boot they work fine. If I switch on DHCP, oh
dear, the system gets very confused and tries to assign the wrong driver to
the wrong network card.
It gets just as bad with the personal firewall. It too starts up _before_
the network modules are started. Same problem again. But it gets worse. The
firewall can't cope with DHCP. It doesn't handle the fact that DHCP means
you don't have a fixed IP address.
So what are the solutions? Build a kernel with the network modules in so
they're available _before_ firewall and DHCP try to mangle them. Make the
firewall software change IP address _after_ DHCP has started using some
kind of script.
(Note: for the brain dead among you, I'm not posting this as a request for
help. This is an advocacy group after all).
What happens if I install Windows? I have to install device drivers for
these network cards. Then I set up one as DHCP, one as a fixed address.
Then it just works. Funny that, isn't it. If I want something that just
works, use Windows. If I want something that almost works (but requires
more investigation) then use Linux.
There's an article about SuSE 7.1 is a "windows killer"
(http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/3052/1/). I'm sorry, but
with this kind of nonsense, Windows is safe. Microsoft have nothing to
worry about. Linux is still playing catch up.
--
Pete
Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
Kylix: the way to go!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 03:27:02 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So much for modules in Linux!
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
Alright, Pete is back! His postings and the ensuing responses always
make for a good laugh. I was wondering what the he11 happened to him.
> I'm using SuSE 7.1 Personal after all my struggles with Mandrake 7.2.
Each week, Pete reviews a new distro. Don't miss his critical review of
Slackware next week, same time, same NG.
> Why doesn't it work? I have two network cards. Both are supported, both are
> modules. If I let the system boot they work fine. If I switch on DHCP, oh
> dear, the system gets very confused and tries to assign the wrong driver to
> the wrong network card.
Did you try loading the modules manually at the command line to see if
they work? Perhaps your kernel and modules are out of sync.
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------------------------------
From: Jarko Vihriala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: another example of why Linux is brain dead.
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:30:07 GMT
kirk@do_not_spam wrote:
> If anyone thinks this junk will compete with windows they must be
> out of their minds.
First of all you're referring to linux as the complete package,
remeber, that the "Linux" is the kernel, the core of the OS,
the applications on top of it depend on the used distribution.
If you want to get off easy, get RedHat - it should be quite
foolproof distribution, the slackware is example from the another
end where you really know what is in your system.
I have made many copies of CD's with Linux, I have used Redhat 6.x
and Redhat 7.x and even slackware distributions. I haven't had
any problems what so ever, but - I don't use clickety-click GUI
operations, I usually use the cli all the time.
I configure the linux kernel to understand ISO9660 and enable
SCSI-support, then connect the devices and boot it up.
Best Regards,
Jarko
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Has Linux anything to offer ?
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:41:29 -0700
"roger$@a" wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rex says...
>
> > If you are a student who
> >would like to learn the principles of UNIX, if you are the secretary
> >of a non-profit and want
> >to put up a web-site, or if you just want to chat and e-mail, Linux
> >has some
> >really great tools to do this.
> >
>
> The problem is that on Linux, there is no consistant and coherant way
> with how applications work. One can't cut/paste from one app to
> another like on windows. Application quality in general are less of
> those that exist on widnows.
>
> Let take some examples:
>
> 1. Using IE 6.0 beta, If I am on a web page, and do 'save', IE is
> smart enough not only to save the HTML page itself, but also to
> create a subdirectory with all the gif files on that page. This means
> when one views the locally saved HTML page later on, it comes up with
> all the images intact on it. There is nothing like this on Linux.
>
> 2. On windows, I can drag an image from my Visio document to my word
> document and have it show up there. There is nothing like this on linux.
>
> 3. On Windows, when one starts a CD writes, the writes software
> automatically scans scsi and ide devices and locates the CD-W device.
> On linux, one must compile the kernel and do other hacks to get this
> to work.
>
Not anymore. Modules allows one to add changes to the kernel without
rebooting.
CD-RW is now part of the more popular distros. The kernel hacking is
never needed with these devices... it was something done a few years
ago. Time changes things.
> 4. On linux, each distro has it own way interface and methods of how
> to configure and update the system. On widnows there is one way.
>
> 5. On linux, it is still very hard to get a system working using
> anti-aliased fonts, without more user hacks and configurations. On
> windows, it comes build in and the user has to do nothing more.
>
> 6. Printing on Linux is broke. On widnows, setting up a printer requires
> no hacks as on linux. It just works.
>
Printing is easy. I find that my Epson printer works better under linux
than it ever has under windows. Why did Epson replace windows' print
manager with their own?
Because the windows print manager does not respond quickly or none at
all. Try like 5 to 10 minutes to stop a print job. (Win9x series)
> 7. On Linux, there are many different desktop environments, each work
> differently. Applications written for one, might not work as expected
> on another. On windows, there is one way to do it, making developer life
> much simpler and users are familiar with how GUI applications are expected
> to behave.
>
I've never had a problem with different window managers. I'm using Motif
1.4 and have easily compiled games from other Linux distros without any
problems. The underlying core are the X-libs.
> >PERL, Python, PHP, and other scripting languages, combined with KDE
> >and GNOME components have made it very easy to obtain programs that
> >can be packaged quite creatively.
>
> PERL, python, PHP all exist on windows.
>
>
You have to either buy or download these for windows. These are already
pre-configured under linux.
> >
> >> Are CD-R and CD-RW easier to configure and use with Linux?
> >
>
> >This depends or your system. Linux sports multiple "toasters", and
> >the set-up for the read-write is a bit more involved. On the other
> >hand, the EZ-CD Creator
> >used on most Windows CD-ROM burners costs over $100 retail.
> >
>
> CD writer devices come with a FREE cdwrites software packages
> with it in the box, (for windows of course).
>
> >> Is the support for Display Cards, DVD, Sound Cards, Large Hard Drives and
> >> Printers better?
>
> >
> >For the products that advertise Linux compatibility, the support is
> >usually
> >quite good.
>
> There is no commerical DVD player for linux. What is there is
> mostly hacks that does not support half of what a commercial
> DVD players on widnows support.
>
I would refute the DVD argument. Things change over time. I believe
that the current version of Suse and RedHat now have DVD built in.
>
> >
> >Some people like it because they like having the power and stability
> >of a UNIX system.
>
> win2k is VERY stable. The stability claim is getting too old now.
> need to find a new one.
>
>
Tell that to the space crew up above. NT crashed quite often. Only the
Russians know what their laptop is running and it didn't crash.
> In summary:
> -----------
> The Linux KERNEL is good. No one can argue about that. But to have
> an OS for the end user has nothing to do with the KERNEL. The
> main problem with Linux as and end user, is that there is no overall
> guiding strategy and design to drive it. Each linux group decide to make
> something as they please, a new Linux flavour is out each month. We now
> have 75 Linux distro and counting. No standard way to do anything. From
> application installation to printer setup to configuring the network.
>
> It is like being in the kitchen with 20 cooks making one big dinner. Each
> want to do the dinner their own way.
>
> Unless this is fundemantly chaned, linux will never compete with windows
> on the desktop. windows still claims 90% of the desktop. The reason is
> simple. It is simple to use and consistant in the way it works.
>
> Making something simple and easy to use is something the Linux advocates
> find very hard to understand. Users do not want 20 different ways to do
> the same thing. Users want the OS to hide the complixity of the machine
> from them. Users want an OS that is easy to configure and manage and use.
>
> So far, windows is winning in this area, if it were not, it would not
> have 90% market share. (of course, you will blame this on MS marketing,
> right?)
Right now I get pleas for help in the home windows area. Always have to
defrag their hard drives, boot up in Dos, do a scanreg /fix, and a
scanreg /opt. Depending on the user you have to do this about once a
week on various brands of hardware. I do not call this reliable. Now
people are asking "Is there another machine out there that doesn't use
Microsoft?" Yes, either get one with linux pre-installed, like HP, or
buy a Mac.
Windows is winning only because of marketing strategy and the usual P.T.
Barnum effect.
If you don't want to run games, get a 64-bit Sun Blade 100 for $950 with
Solaris 8.
If you want to run games there is the PCI card for $400 to plug in to
run windows.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: t. max devlin: kook
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:56:52 -0700
Chad Everett wrote:
>
> On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 01:39:45 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >> After that, I like CLI based commands because I know what I want to do and
> >I
> >> can type it. A GUI based system requires an added step of navigating the
> >> various menus and dialog boxes that seem to get in the way of what I want
> >to
> >> do.
> >
> >Read the help files.
> >You have to do it anyway for CLI applications.
> >
>
> Oh you mean the help files in Windows where you first have to answer all
> these questions about whether you want it to create help file indexing for
> minimizing this or maximizing that.. and you just go...Hey! I just want some
> help...OK? Or the help files where this freaky little paperclip man comes
> up and starts winking at you like some sort of a sex pervert and saying:
> "What do you want to do today?" and "Just type in your question" and so
> you type in something like: "I want to find all files that containa the
> text: 'financial'" and the little paperback winking pervert says: "Wink, wink,
> nudge, nudge....you're looking mighty fine today, big boy."
>
> You mean those help files?
AHAHAHAHAHAA!!
:-))
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Inktomi Webmap -- Apache has 60% now.
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:09:04 -0700
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > * Have You Heard...Compaq has been left red faced by a defacement
> > > > double whammy as two of its sub domains were vandalized by two
> > > > different hacking groups?
> > > > Publication: vnunet.com
> > > > Issue Date: 22 March 2001
> > > > Title: Compaq Websites Suffer Double Hack
> > > > http://www.vnunet.com/News/1119535
> > > >
> > > > This was the article.
> > >
> > > The article doesn't seem accurate.
> > >
> > >
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ols2.software-acq.compaq.com+
> > >
> > > Shows that on March 25th, the first site was running on Compaq Tru64
> Unix,
> > > and only switched to NT4 sometime in the last week or so.
> >
> > Well, it may not seem accurate, but an intrusion is an intrusion.
>
> I'm not sure I follow you. The article claims that it was NT4 that was
> breached, yet Netcraft seems to indicate that at the time of the attack,
> they were running Tru64 (and Apache). Clearly one must call into question
> the validity of the article at all if they can't even get what OS the
> computer was running correct.
"The two sub domain servers, both running hackers' favourite
Microsoft IIS 4 on NT, were hit overnight."
This is the part above.
"Compaq's main site, Compaq.com, runs the less attacked Apache web
server on
Compaq's own flavour of Unix, Tru64."
I would say by all of this that MS draws more attention to hackers and
that hackers do breach the security. If UNIX was the target, I'd say
they would have a more difficult time. Not impossible, just difficult.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Article: Windows XP won't support USB 2.0
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:12:30 -0700
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > Microsoft says it's a quality issue, which is nonsense (what -
> > > Microsoft, concerned with quality? <g>). A Register article a few
> > > weeks ago asserted that MS's real reason is that USB doesn't offer a
> > > content-control mechanism, and 1394 does.
> >
> > Didn't MS ever consider all of those USB devices people purchased??
> > Some enterprising company will make adapter cards and drivers for these
> > orphaned products.
>
> USB 1.1 is still supported, USB 2.0 isn't because USB 2.0 isn't done yet.
What is MSs' intentions then?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 04:13:56 -0400
From: unicat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: root@localhost, admin@exchange
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Blame it all on Microsoft
(The following are the editorial opinions of the author, no more, no
less)
It was good to see the DOW go back above 10000 yesterday, but there
are lingering doubts about whether the bear market is over.
Which has many people asking, what happened to the optimism of the 90's?
Where is that spirit of unbridled optimism that fueled so many years of
steady growth.
The author would like to advance a pet theory. It's all Microsoft's
fault.
For the past decade, there has been a bubble of investment spending,
which
has produced high profits and further investment, all based upon a
single phenomenon:
Moore's Law. The principle that says that computers will go twice as
fast every 18 months.
This has given us desktop computers with the compute power and disk
storage
of mainframes from a decade ago, at prices of pennies per MIP instead of
kilobucks.
So businesses have scrambled to find ways to use this computing power to
improve every
aspect of their enterprise. Which meant lots of capital spending. Which
fueled the
growth of tech sector companies, resulting in lots of high wage jobs,
which fueled
consumer spending, which benefitted mainstream business, and so forth in
a virtuous
cycle.
And every year or so a new type of microprocessor would be released with
even more
power. And not coincidentally, a new version of the Windows OS would be
released,
which added features at the expense of using more CPU resources. So
everyone had
to spend a bunch of new capital on upgrades, which started the virtuous
cycle all over again.
But now the cycle seems to be breaking, and the blame, for this author,
rests squarely on
Microsoft. They seem to have hit the wall, to have run out of ideas.
It has been three years since Windows 98 now, and Microsoft is working
on their fourth attempt
at a replacement OS (Windows SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, and now Win
XP), but
most desktops are still running good old Win 98. Why? Because there are
no features in the new
OS's that are interesting enough to be worth the pain and expense of an
upgrade.
When the internet began to take off there was an opportunity for
Microsoft to become
its champion. However instead MS appears to have seen the internet as a
threat to its desktop
based computing empire, and it attempted to smother the baby. First (as
this author
recalls) by promoting the MSN as a rival to the internet itself, and
when that didn't work,
by (according to Sun)poisoning standards like Java that could have been
used to
build robust e-commerce systems, leaving the world of internet commerce
in disarray,
and turning dot-coms into dot-bombs as cunsumers shied away from the
resulting mess.
In an attempt to close the barn door after the horse was out, MS has put
forward their
new dot-net initiative. It has been called mind-numbingly complex, and
due to customer
suspicion over Microsofts motives, it is seeing adoption rates about
equal to the Ford Edsel.
In the view of the author, Microsoft overall seems to be transitioning
in behavior, from an
innovator that liberated users with cheap easy-to-use software, to a
mainframe-style company,
obsessed with controlling users and maximizing its revenue from each
trivial product upgrade.
As users balk at painful and expensive upgrades, MS is squeezing for
more license fees from
products already in use. One recent article seemed to indicate that MS
had asked one firm to pay
a license for every CLIENT system that accessed a web site built using
windows NT.
Students of history will see that this sort of behavior will inevitably
to the demise of Microsoft.
But for the US economy, this will be a good thing.
The Barbarians have already gathered at the gates. The Linux OS, which
some claim is more
powerful and robust than Windows, giving the scalability of large UNIX
servers to cheap intel iron,
is already growing faster than Windows 2000, and is reported by the Wall
Street Journal to have claimed
over a 30% market share in servers. Although Linux use on the desktop
has been limited to under 10%
by the inertia of users accustomed to MS Office, there has now been an
end-around-run. The Openoffice
organization ( http://www.openoffice.org ) has released an office suite
with nearly the same look-and-feel
as MS Office. It will process MS office document formats, and runs
equally well under Windows and Linux,
and is being given away for FREE in perpetuity.
Not only that, but old-time arch-rivals of MS, like IBM, are beginning
to lose their fear of defying
Microsoft. It seems that it has suddenly dawned on them that Microsoft
isn't all that talented, or
tough, and given their relative sizes, it might just be time for IBM to
give pipsqueak Microsoft a
thrashing they have long deserved. The first blow is for IBM to spend
over $1billion on Linux
development this year.
As Microsoft does a long slow fade into irrelevance, there will be a
liitle pain for the current
users of Windows, but it will be quickly replaced by enthusiasm. As the
constipating plug of Windows
is removed from corporate IS departments, a flush of new creativity will
ensue as technical personnel
suddenly feel free to explore more creative and innovative ways to build
servers, networks and protocols.
Which will result in another rush of capital spending, and we will begin
anew the virtuous cycle
of economic growth.
------------------------------
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