Linux-Advocacy Digest #508, Volume #33 Wed, 11 Apr 01 12:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a (WesTralia)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Phillip Lord)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Craig Kelley)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Has Linux anything to offer ? (Chad Everett)
What Linux console? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Phillip Lord)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:26:49 -0400
WesTralia wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Chad Everett wrote:
> > >
> > > L14: Clue for the clueless: I was expecting that from you so here ya go:
> > >
> > > .global myadd
> > > myadd:
> > > retl
> > > add %o0,%o1,%o0
> > >
> > > Do you REALLY think that's more elegant and efficient than?:
> > >
> > > int myadd( int i, int j)
> > > {
> > > return i+j;
> > > }
> > >
> > > If your answer is yes, see L14:
> >
> > using a full-blown function call for an integer addition
> > makes for a completely useless example.
> >
>
> Moron! Do you know what an example is? And what pray tell
> is a "full-blown" function? How does that compare to a
One which has the full overhead of a function call, including
the overhead of pushing the CPU state onto the stack, and
recovering it at the end.
> half-blown function, moron!
Haven't programmed in assembly much, have you.
>
> OUTED! LOL!
>
> --
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: WesTralia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:29:42 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Chad Everett wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:19:12 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Chad Everett wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:26:01 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> >WesTralia wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, WesTralia
> > >> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> >> > wrote
> > >> >> > on Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:12:23 -0500
> > >> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >> >> > >"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >[...]
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >> > Assembly might become a lost art....
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> Personally, it's still my favorite type of programming...
> > >> >> > >> followed by microcoding.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> Because elegance and efficiency are closely tied at that level.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >I think I am going to be sick!
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Eh? Please explain. Unless it's related to some personal vendetta
> > >> >> > between you and Aaron, in which case don't bother. :-)
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Well, it's like this, I am going to be sick in Aaron's case in the same
> > >> >> sense that I would become sick if I saw Barbara Striesand (Babs) preaching
> > >> >> foreign policy and energy conservation.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> For a Wintendo98 DosLuser, Aaron and microcoding seem like strange
>bedfellows.
> > >> >> Translation: BS!
> > >> >
> > >> >Actually, I microcoded the PDP-11 instruction set, after writing
> > >> >a microcode simulator for a proposed CPU architecture.
> > >> >
> > >> >And yes,....it ran PDP-11 object code flawlessly.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Have you written any code in the last ten years? How about the last five
> > >> years? What about this year?
> > >
> > >Most of what I've done in the last 5 years has been shell scripting.
> > >
> >
> > Well shell scripting is a noble activity. Cheers.
>
> I tend to do this:
>
> Get a new job. Write shell scripts to rectify all the common problems
> After a couple months, write a few more shell scripts to go out and
> diagnose the problems before they become "show-stoppers", which
> then call the problem-rectifying scripts.
>
> After about 6 months, I'm bored to tears, because the machines totally
> take care of themselves...so, I go find a new job (and MORE $$$$)
>
Then you need to change you sig.
Aaron R. Kulkis
Script Kiddie
DNRC Minister of the basement
IDORK # 3056642
--
------------------------------
From: Phillip Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: 11 Apr 2001 16:37:29 +0100
>>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Aaron> Gamma wrote:
>> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Phillip Lord wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >> >> Aaron> Which means that as soon as your on a new machine,
>> your stuck >> Aaron> editing WITHOUT your config file.... >> >>
>> Aaron> UGH. >> >> This is why God invented NFS mounted home
>> spaces. >> >> Phil > >And if your behind a corporate firewall
>> which doesn't permit >NFS connections through it....
>>
>> That's why God invented 3.5" floppies.
>>
>> And if you're behind a corporate firewall WITH security
>> restrictions that prohibit bringing in software from the
>> Internet...
>>
>> That's why God invented other jobs. :-)
Aaron> When you're a consultant, and you're on a customer sight for
Aaron> just a short period of time...let's see...first you gotta
Aaron> bring emacs with you, in case they don't have it, AND have
Aaron> your .emacrc...
Aaron> Oh, and make sure you remove it before you leave, because if
Aaron> the people in charge of the site wanted emacs on the system,
Aaron> it would already be there.
Aaron> Bleah.
Aaron> It's just simpler to use VI and be done with it.
I used to carry around a copy of the marvellous
programmers file editor on floppy. It was great. In the same way
believe it or not I do now how to use VI. Of course I am not as
competent as a real VI user, but I'm okay. But I can't use VI to read
my email, or send news messages, so I use emacs most of the time. And
I can also use emacs without any of my customisations. I just prefer
to have them.
If I moved around from machine to machine a lot (which
I don't) then I would stick emacs with all my configuration and extra
packages and anything else that I wanted onto a CD-ROM, and run it off
there.
I have no problems with VI. Its a great editor. It just not do
all the things that I want. Emacs does. And if it does, I can make it
do so.
Phil
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: 11 Apr 2001 09:38:32 -0600
Roberto Selbach Teixeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Maybe you just don't know "Customize". Try using it to configure Emacs
> and you will see how "difficult" it is. Customize offers a interface
> for customization that don't require a single line of code or to edit
> a file. The user doesn't even have to know in which file the
> customization goes.
>
> As for Emacs defaults, I agree with you that they are not the best for
> everyone. But all you have to do is using the menu Options->Customize
> Emacs to change the whole thing.
Not to mention that XEmacs offers classic drop-down menus to change
most anything about the editor, and it will write out the elisp file
for you.
[snip]
> Don't fool yourself, there is at least one thing you positively
> *have* to know about Vi:
>
> Pressing lots of ESC's followed by ":q!" will quit the damn thing.
And in a related note, if you ever get stuck in Emacs, just pres
control-G a half-dozen times. :)
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:33:43 -0400
MH wrote:
>
> "unicat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > (The following are the editorial opinions of the author, no more, no
> > less)
> >
> > It was good to see the DOW go back above 10000 yesterday, but there
> > are lingering doubts about whether the bear market is over.
> >
> > Which has many people asking, what happened to the optimism of the 90's?
>
> Saturation and the laws of diminishing returns.
>
> > Where is that spirit of unbridled optimism that fueled so many years of
> > steady growth.
>
> It has been replaced with skepticism and malaise.
>
> > The author would like to advance a pet theory. It's all Microsoft's
> > fault.
>
> Interersting concept, albiet all too common.
>
> > For the past decade, there has been a bubble of investment spending,
> > which
> > has produced high profits and further investment, all based upon a
> > single phenomenon:
> > Moore's Law. The principle that says that computers will go twice as
> > fast every 18 months.
>
> I believe simple greed would suffice as a more accurate and plausible
> explanation of the phenomenon you allude to.
>
> [history lesson snipped]
>
> > And every year or so a new type of microprocessor would be released with
> > even more
> > power. And not coincidentally, a new version of the Windows OS would be
> > released,
> > which added features at the expense of using more CPU resources. So
> > everyone had
> > to spend a bunch of new capital on upgrades, which started the virtuous
> > cycle all over again.
>
> Define 'everyone'. Many organizations have not upgraded beyond windows 95 or
> 98.
>
> > But now the cycle seems to be breaking, and the blame, for this author,
> > rests squarely on
> > Microsoft. They seem to have hit the wall, to have run out of ideas.
>
> Solely?
>
> > It has been three years since Windows 98 now, and Microsoft is working
> > on their fourth attempt
> > at a replacement OS (Windows SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, and now Win
> > XP), but
> > most desktops are still running good old Win 98. Why? Because there are
> > no features in the new
> > OS's that are interesting enough to be worth the pain and expense of an
> > upgrade.
>
> I'll agree for the most part with this.
>
> > When the internet began to take off there was an opportunity for
> > Microsoft to become
> > its champion. However instead MS appears to have seen the internet as a
> > threat to its desktop
> > based computing empire, and it attempted to smother the baby. First (as
> > this author
> > recalls) by promoting the MSN as a rival to the internet itself, and
> > when that didn't work,
> > by (according to Sun)poisoning standards like Java that could have been
> > used to
> > build robust e-commerce systems, leaving the world of internet commerce
> > in disarray,
> > and turning dot-coms into dot-bombs as cunsumers shied away from the
> > resulting mess.
> > In an attempt to close the barn door after the horse was out, MS has put
> > forward their
> > new dot-net initiative. It has been called mind-numbingly complex, and
> > due to customer
> > suspicion over Microsofts motives, it is seeing adoption rates about
> > equal to the Ford Edsel.
>
> Sun is nothing more than a MS wannabe. Java, as most know, is not all that
> Sun purports it to be.
>
> > In the view of the author, Microsoft overall seems to be transitioning
> > in behavior, from an
> > innovator that liberated users with cheap easy-to-use software, to a
> > mainframe-style company,
> > obsessed with controlling users and maximizing its revenue from each
> > trivial product upgrade.
> > As users balk at painful and expensive upgrades, MS is squeezing for
> > more license fees from
> > products already in use. One recent article seemed to indicate that MS
> > had asked one firm to pay
> > a license for every CLIENT system that accessed a web site built using
> > windows NT.
>
> MS still makes products that are easy to install and use, and they are
> actually getting better at providing this benefit.
If you call "repeating the same series of point-and-click operatons
over and over again, for 150 files" easy. Most people, however, would
call that laborious, irritating, and error-prone.
One of the things computers are BEST at is boring, repititous tasks..
and yet...Mafiasoft software provides NO facilities for the average
user to automate boring, repititious tasks.
why is that?
> Obsessed with controlling users? I'll go along with that. They are, after
> all, a monopoly company. Most monopoly companies behave in the same
> predictable ways.
>
> > Students of history will see that this sort of behavior will inevitably
> > to the demise of Microsoft.
> > But for the US economy, this will be a good thing.
>
> Demise seems a bit strong to me.
>
> > The Barbarians have already gathered at the gates. The Linux OS, which
> > some claim is more
> > powerful and robust than Windows, giving the scalability of large UNIX
> > servers to cheap intel iron,
> > is already growing faster than Windows 2000, and is reported by the Wall
> > Street Journal to have claimed
> > over a 30% market share in servers. Although Linux use on the desktop
> > has been limited to under 10%
> > by the inertia of users accustomed to MS Office, there has now been an
> > end-around-run. The Openoffice
> > organization ( http://www.openoffice.org ) has released an office suite
> > with nearly the same look-and-feel
> > as MS Office. It will process MS office document formats, and runs
> > equally well under Windows and Linux,
> > and is being given away for FREE in perpetuity.
>
> Look and feel don't equate to the ability to usurp an extremely well
> entrenched product.
>
> > Not only that, but old-time arch-rivals of MS, like IBM, are beginning
> > to lose their fear of defying
> > Microsoft. It seems that it has suddenly dawned on them that Microsoft
> > isn't all that talented, or
> > tough, and given their relative sizes, it might just be time for IBM to
> > give pipsqueak Microsoft a
> > thrashing they have long deserved. The first blow is for IBM to spend
> > over $1billion on Linux
> > development this year.
>
> Jury is out, IMO, on what impact IBM will have on MS's market share through
> it's exploitation of Linux.
> Some corporate piss may trickle from the commode down to Linux's end-user
> base.
> Funny, you would have me mistrust MS, (easy to do) but would have me trust
> IBM?
IBM has new leadership. The current CEO, upon assuming the title,
fired off a corporation-wide memo blasting management for specifically
ignoring customers' true needs, and that this was the primary reason
why IBM was posting losses in the midst of a booming economy. AIX was
one such project. Yes, it's unix...but it is so much UNLIKE other
kinds of unix, that it "doesn't play well with others".
Adopting Linux is a way of now meeting customers' needs for systems
which can run the same administrative scripts as their Solaris and
HP-UX systems, without IBM having to repeat the capital investment of AIX.
>
> > As Microsoft does a long slow fade into irrelevance, there will be a
> > liitle pain for the current
> > users of Windows, but it will be quickly replaced by enthusiasm. As the
> > constipating plug of Windows
> > is removed from corporate IS departments, a flush of new creativity will
> > ensue as technical personnel
> > suddenly feel free to explore more creative and innovative ways to build
> > servers, networks and protocols.
> > Which will result in another rush of capital spending, and we will begin
> > anew the virtuous cycle
> > of economic growth.
>
> Until open source has a web browser that will compel users to switch from
> the now dominant I.E., and software efficacious to educational uses is
> produced, it will remain just a pleasant refuge for the more tech savvy from
> MS's visions and frustrations, and the best server platform available. But
> then I enjoy shell scripting, AWK, SED, and the the 'feeling' that using
> open source products provide. Just don't expect me to cruise the web \
> Usenet with NN || Mozilla || Konqueror || <insert inferior browser here>
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Subject: Re: Has Linux anything to offer ?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 11 Apr 2001 10:28:32 -0500
On 10 Apr 2001 22:06:30 -0700, roger$@a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rex says...
>
>> If you are a student who
>>would like to learn the principles of UNIX, if you are the secretary
>>of a non-profit and want
>>to put up a web-site, or if you just want to chat and e-mail, Linux
>>has some
>>really great tools to do this.
>>
>
>The problem is that on Linux, there is no consistant and coherant way
>with how applications work. One can't cut/paste from one app to
>another like on windows. Application quality in general are less of
>those that exist on widnows.
>
I don't seem to have a problem cutting and pasting between apps
on linux. Why do you?
>Let take some examples:
>
>1. Using IE 6.0 beta, If I am on a web page, and do 'save', IE is
>smart enough not only to save the HTML page itself, but also to
>create a subdirectory with all the gif files on that page. This means
>when one views the locally saved HTML page later on, it comes up with
>all the images intact on it. There is nothing like this on Linux.
>
And you call this a feature heh?
>2. On windows, I can drag an image from my Visio document to my word
>document and have it show up there. There is nothing like this on linux.
Can you tell me how to move that image to any location I want in my word
doc? Can I drag an image from IE to Word in this manner?
>
>3. On Windows, when one starts a CD writes, the writes software
>automatically scans scsi and ide devices and locates the CD-W device.
>On linux, one must compile the kernel and do other hacks to get this
>to work.
Unless you have more than one CD-W and then it barfs.
>
>4. On linux, each distro has it own way interface and methods of how
>to configure and update the system. On widnows there is one way.
>
Let's see: Windows 95, Windows ME, Windows NT, Windows 2K eash have
different "interface and methods of how to configure and update the
system"...now don't they.
>5. On linux, it is still very hard to get a system working using
>anti-aliased fonts, without more user hacks and configurations. On
>windows, it comes build in and the user has to do nothing more.
>
Really? What distro did you try this on. I had no problem at all.
>6. Printing on Linux is broke. On widnows, setting up a printer requires
>no hacks as on linux. It just works.
>
Really? YOu must be technically challenged. My printers were configured
out of the box on my Linux distro.
>7. On Linux, there are many different desktop environments, each work
>differently. Applications written for one, might not work as expected
>on another. On windows, there is one way to do it, making developer life
>much simpler and users are familiar with how GUI applications are expected
>to behave.
>
Really? Can why Windows 2K has a huge list of Windows 98 applications and
devices that it can't run?
>>PERL, Python, PHP, and other scripting languages, combined with KDE
>>and GNOME components have made it very easy to obtain programs that
>>can be packaged quite creatively.
>
>PERL, python, PHP all exist on windows.
>
Alright! Can you tell me how I can run GNOME or KDE on Windows instead
of the Windows GUI?
>
>>
>>> Are CD-R and CD-RW easier to configure and use with Linux?
>>
Piece of cake.
>
>CD writer devices come with a FREE cdwrites software packages
>with it in the box, (for windows of course).
>
They don't work on my Windows 2K system though.
>
>There is no commerical DVD player for linux. What is there is
>mostly hacks that does not support half of what a commercial
>DVD players on widnows support.
>
Really. I really like the DVD player running on my Linux system.
I bought the player at Best Buy.
>
>So far, windows is winning in this area, if it were not, it would not
>have 90% market share. (of course, you will blame this on MS marketing,
>right?)
>
Let's get together again next year and see where things are at.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: What Linux console?
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:36:22 +0100
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18233.html
Another Linux venture bites the dust.
--
---
Pete Goodwin
All your no fly zone are belong to us
My opinions are my own
------------------------------
From: Phillip Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: 11 Apr 2001 16:44:11 +0100
>>>>> "Roberto" == Roberto Selbach Teixeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>writes:
Randall> I want to install an editor, go to a menu pop-down that is
Randall> labelled something like "Key Mappings" and then get a
Randall> dialog box that has radio buttons or a combo box that lets
Randall> me select from a half dozen popular key mappings (vi,
Randall> Brief, CUA, etc). If it requires downloading separate Lisp
Randall> scripts and trying to understand the guts of hacked up Lisp
Randall> macros to get it to work right then I'm really not
Randall> interested.
>>
>>
>> The thing with emacs is that there is little difference between
>> "configuring" and "programming" it. Its possible therefore to
>> configure it to an arbitrary degree of complexity.
Roberto> This is not true. You do not have to know anything about
Roberto> elisp (the language used on emacs) to configure it. All you
Roberto> have to do is either using the minibuffer and type "Alt-x
Roberto> customize ENTER" (or M-x customize RET, as we Emacsers say
Roberto> it) or going to the menu
Options-> Customize Emacs. No programming required. All you will
Options-> have
Roberto> to do is click buttons.
Read my post again and perhaps you will understand it.
I am fully aware of custom. Indeed if you do a little work you will
find that I have written much lisp to add custom support where it
previous was not.
>> If you want to "configure" emacs so that for instance as well as
>> being an editor it can also parse Java source, provide method
>> completion, auto Javadoc look up and so forth then its actually
>> fairly hard and will take a lot of work. But you can do
>> it. Fortunately for me some has done it, and this is available
>> for others to use (http://jde.sunsite.dk).
>>
>> If you want to pretty GUI dialog boxes then emacs does not do
>> this (although xemacs, and the newer version of emacs does). It
>> does have a text based configuration system (xemacs, and the
>> newer version of emacs use toolkit widgets if they are
>> available).
Roberto> That is right. So how can you say that customizing emacs is
Roberto> not very different than programming it?
Custom autocodes lisp.
The point that I am making is an uncustomised or unconfigured
emacs, which is what temacs is essentially a lisp interpreter with
very little functionality. Almost all of what emacs does is coded in
lisp extensions. Now in my .emacs I have large amounts of lisp. Which
of this is customisations, and which is extensions? Its a meaningless
distinction.
>> So you have the options there. The reason that many people use
>> lisp to configure (myself included) is that they want to perform
>> complex configuration. Emacs does now provide click and point
>> options which is good. But something like the command line I'm
>> glad that the lisp is still there for when I want it.
Roberto> And all of a sudden I realize that you are on my side after
Roberto> all :-)
There is no real sides to it. Some people like VI some emacs.
I can see both arguments.
Roberto> Configuring VI is much more difficult than configuring
Roberto> Emacs, nowadays.
I've never configured VI, so I can't comment.
Phil
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