Linux-Advocacy Digest #605, Volume #33 Sat, 14 Apr 01 13:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: So much for modules in Linux! (Tim Hanson)
Re: Communism (Walter Daniels)
Re: Communism (Walter Daniels)
Re: Communism (Walter Daniels)
Re: Communism (Walter Daniels)
Re: Communism (Walter Daniels)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) ("Uncle Davey")
Re: there's always a bigger fool (Johan Kullstam)
Re: Something cool in gcc (Chronos Tachyon)
Re: Something cool in gcc ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: Something cool in gcc ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: there's always a bigger fool (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: NT is stagnant while Linux explodes (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Something like Install Shield for Linux? ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:31:32 -0700
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: So much for modules in Linux!
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Well, hopefully this development will finally make developers realise
> > that there is potential in Linux instead of dismissing it as some fad,
> > mind you, something that has lasted 10 years I would not consider a
> > fad. As a side note, I find it rather funny that developers bitch and
> > moan because of the lack of gaming API's when they totally over look
> > OpenGL, and its audio equivilant, OpenAL. There is also sdl used by
> > lokigames to help them port many of the DirectX based games to linux. I
> > am sure there are many other API's out there for Linux, so, as a matter
> > of fact, they not only have a gaming API, but a selection, so that, if
> > API "X" doesn't suite the job, then they can use one that does.
> >
> > As for SuSE Linux. I have SuSE Linux 7.1 running, and compared to
> > Redhat, SuSE is awsome. Hence, the reason I donot understand why SuSE
> > has not made bigger inroads into the US market.
>
> It's absence on store shelves had a lot to do with it, I'm sure. That's
> changing though. I picked up mine from OfficeMax a while back. (And, without
> a doubt, Red Hat could take some lessons from them. Fantastic distro!)
>
> --
> Tom Wilson
I've been a SuSE user since 5.? (1, I think). My first try was
Slackware out of a book, then Red Hat, finally settling on SuSE because
in my compleat newbieness it was the only one I could actually get X to
work on and connect with my (at that time) dial-up ISP. I'm up to a few
boxen plus a laptop on SuSE 7.1
My only complaint is that they're too KDE-centric.
--
Begathon, n.:
A multi-day event on public television, used to raise money so
you won't have to watch commercials.
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Daniels)
Crossposted-To:
alt.society.liberalism,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:36:21 GMT
On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:49:32 -0500, Scott Erb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>> Last I checked, most of these groups were ragging on the Japanese
>> economic model...which, if you do your homework, has been fascist
>> for 80 years now.
>???? Fascist Japan???
The Japanese Government(?) and Japanese business, are so intertwined
taht there isd effectively no difference. This due in large part, to
their decision after WWII, to "co-ordinate" business policies. There
is a ministry, whose name escapes me, that literally controls research
and development. No R&D is done, without their permission. IIRC, it
also determines what can be imprted/exported.
>-snip rest, no comments on those points-
>cheers, scott
>http://violet.umf.maine.edu/~erb/
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Daniels)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:36:30 GMT
On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 23:51:38 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Fulcanelli wrote:
>>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Erb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Scott Erb wrote:
>> > > > Too simplistic. Here is a bit about fascism:
>If a doctor professes to be "interested in the health of his patients",
>but his procedures cause every one of his patients...even those with
>mild colds, to die within days...because his methods call for ingesting
>large doses of strychnine and cyanide....would you say that this doctor's
>work has redeeming qualities?
>
>Translation: The road to hell is paved with "good intentions"
>
>Intentions are worthless (and besides, they are sooooooo easy to
>lie about). The ONLY thing that matters is results.
>
>ALL forms of Socialism (Fascism, Communism, and middle-of-the-road
>socialism) all cause GREAT amounts of harm and very very little good.
>
>In the year 1900, one could be excused for not knowing.
>
>In the year 2000, claiming to not understand that socialism is
>evil is inexcusable for anybody who claims to be educated.
Sad, but true. Only someone ignorant of history, unwilling to see
quite clear lessons, or with ill intent, cannot see them. The root of
the problem is in the last two points. There are many, who will never
admit that history has lesson, form which we learn. These are usually
found in "teaching," positions. I say "teaching," as they merely
proclaim, and do not really teach.
The second of my three trypes, are young, easily led, and lack
knowledge of history, or are convinced that _they_ can "make it work."
They, in many cases, have never held jobs in the real world. I.e.,
where they had to work with "common people." :-E) They work in jobs
where they can feel "superior," to others, and therefore not listen to
them. They mistake "education," for learning/knowledge.
Some good examples, are people I have worked with. Many had at
_best_ a high school education, and some, no formal education. Yet
they were very competent at things like laying asphalt, or moving
materials from one spot to another. One, was a better Payloader
operator, than most "educated" people were. College students, would
come in as "summer workers," and look down on those of us, who were
full time employees. Most, had be to taught how to shovel things,
without killing themselves. There really is a technique. If you don't
know/use it, you do twice the work you need to.
Some of them, could build better "temporary" structures than trained
people. I learned the rudiments of welding, from one such. After all
these years, I would take a class, to refresh what I learned from him.
Many of those "uneducated" people, had a first hand, on the ground,
"no shit, I was *there,*" view of what happened, in the "history"
books. When you talk to someone who saw riots/lynchings, you learn
what ordinary people really thought. Not what some academic thinks
they thought.
>> > > Indeed, race DOES exist. However, making one's legal standing
>> > > dependant upon one's race is outlandish.
>> >
>> > Race is a social construct. There are genetic differences galore among
>> > humans, some particular diseases stay within groups where genetic
>> > differences exist, such as families, groups separated from others over
>> > time by geographic region, etc.
>> > > Question: Why are sickle-cell anemia public service announcements
>> > > aimed only at blacks?
And _other_ Mediterranean groups. It appears
that SCA, is a genetic trait that helps to prevent Malaria. It's
drawback, is that it sometimes causes Sickle Cell Syndrome, causing
blocked red blood cell flow (anemia). Try telling a Greek, Southern
Italian, Egyptian, etc, that they are "Black." They are likely to take
"vigorous" exception to you. :-)
>> > > Conversely, why is Down's syndrome almost unheard of in black >families?
>> > >
>> > > Indeed, race DOES exist.
>> >
>> > No, you're missing a step here. Genetic differences exist, and in
>> > groups (sometimes small ethnic groups) particular diseases and traits of
>> > that group form. Not just groups defined by skin color, there are a
>> > myriad of ways of dividing people. The concept of race and the focus on
>> > that particular distinction is a social construct, it could be done many
>> > different ways. I suspect what we consider "race" was chosen because
>> > skin color is so obvious, and the people looked different.
Exactly. Here in the US, most subject to SCA, are Black, because we
have so few other Mediteranean types.
>Scott admits to the existance of ethnic groups with high corelations of
>genetic traits....and then goes on to deny that this is PRECISELY
>what race is.
No, you are trying to force traits into groups, which they clearly
overlap. I know a full blood Native American, who appears Norwegian. I
mean classic Viking coloration and eye/hair color. At a gun show,
while awaiting a NICS report, there was a Hispanic, the color of
brown shoe leather, who is classified as "white," due to his ethnic
heritage (Spanish). I personally, am Irish/North European, but tan
like I am from the Mediterranean. As a "young" man, I could pass as a
medium skinned Black. The only give away was that my hair would bleach
almost colorless from the sun, if I did.
>> > cheers, scott
>> > http://violet.umf.maine.edu/~erb/
>--
>Aaron R. Kulkis
>Unix Systems Engineer
>DNRC Minister of all I survey
>ICQ # 3056642
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Daniels)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:36:36 GMT
On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:46:56 +0100, "Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>People, people...give up the "party line" BS and face facts:
>
>ALL political systems are crap.
>Communism is crap.
>Capitalism is crap.
>To badly paraphrase Churchill, "Democracy is crap but it's the best we've
>thought up so far"...
>I mean, if you want to get your kicks from needlessly arguing back and forth
>about "lefties" and "facists" then feel free but you'll get nowhere
>fast...what you think all the political thinkers since the dawn of time have
>been doing? This argument: "selfishness" vs. "altruism", me vs. you,
>blah-blah-blah...is the oldest thing mankind has fought over...
>For instance, in a pure capitalistic environment, then an individual would
>be striving for monopoly
The "pure capitalist," is in fact self limiting. Pure selfishness,
is self governing, as you point out. However, this is because it is
not approached rationally.
Capitalism, says "I want what is best for me." If you are completely
alone, this is true. Once you introduce *others* into the equation, it
cannot maintain. The "best for me," now has to account for others, as
well. If I get too "selfish,"(monopolistic) others will take actions
to abate/stop my selfishness. This leads, in the intelligent thinker,
to the realization that allowing _some_ "best for others," leads to
greater "best for me."
For example, I can grow all my own meat and grain/vegtable items I
need. If I do, I spend most of my time doing it. If I concentrate on
growing one _part_ of what I need, I can have nore free time, to learn
do other things, and trade some of my product, to others, and get the
rest of what I need. If I ask to dear a price for my "products," I
can't trade (sell) them, and therefore am regressing toward the
"pure" model. I am in fact, wasting my seed corn, so to speak. Once
the "good will capital" is used up, it cannot be regained. "Pure"
capitalism sees only *today.* True capitalism, sees not just today,
but next week, next year, and maybe next generation.
>Let me just re-iterate: THEY ARE *ALL* CRAP...
>
>Beth :)
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Daniels)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:36:42 GMT
On Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:05:20 +0100, "Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>What saddens me is that you've let yourselves be taken in by BS rhetoric and
>empty propoganda...
>
>Really, I'm NOT going to push one particular "feel good" drug of a political
>system here or anywhere else...I'm asking you to simply ignore the
>propoganda that's spewed and actually look with an unbiased eye at all
>systems and see that NONE of them are "good"...they are all "passable" as
>ideas and that's about it...
>
>What worries me is that everyone will carry on blindly fighting away...all
>this empty machismo and pointless one-upmanship...one example here, one
>
>We've taken ourselves to the brink of self-destruction on this particular
>score before...why do we want to go there again?
>
>Please, stop fighting this non-argument...we really wouldn't benefit if
>someone "wins" and we all suffer badly from the struggle and if one side
>"loses" then all that does is restrict us...basically, if you fight this
>sort of argument, you are fighting to LOSE, it's LOSE/LOSE...
How did such a voice of rationality slip in here? Quick, find the
entrance so we can close it. :-E)
>Think for yourselves.
>
>Beth :)
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Daniels)
Crossposted-To: misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:36:48 GMT
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:32:28 -0500, Scott Erb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Communism is a utopian idea which is completely incompatible with
>> human nature. Hence any attempt to implement it will end in either
>> capitulation or tyranny. Generally the latter, as anyone driven to
>> take power is not likely to give it up.
>
>That's a tad simplistic. Human nature is not necessarily incompatible
>with socialism or communism, but Marxian communism ignored culture and
>politics in its focus on economic determinism.
It also ignored Human nature, as it had to. It believes that
"mankind" is inherently perfect, and needs only to be "allowed" to act
in that way. Anyone with rela experience in the real world, knows that
"mankind" is anything but. "Man" is inherently selfish, and short
sighted. Just look at small children. They have to *learn* that "pure
selfishness" is counter productive. Society, is "man" written larger,
not more "perfected." Looked at realistically, "society" is governed
mob action. Controlled, not allowed to "do as it pleases."
> It also, in its
>Leninists variants, saw the state as being able to enforce a complete
>change in society, something that does indeed lead to tyranny. If any
>kind of socialism is ever to be achieved, it will have to be democratic
>and chosen, not enforced. I suspect that is still generations away.
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From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: 14 Apr 2001 16:40:06 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy The Ghost In The Machine
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Of course, then one has to worry about heavy fragmentation and
: degrading performance as the MFT fills up. (This is an improvement?
: When will someone write a slip-in DLL/module/whatever for NT that
: allows it to use a proper file system, like reiserfs, xfs, or
: even ext2fs? :-) )
Even if it were possible, you wouldn't want ext2fs on NT. It makes
certain assumptions about the sanity of the OS (for instance, that it
won't crash) which obviously are not true of NT. These assumptions
aren't necessarily true for poorly administered Linux boxes either,
especially those that have questionable hardware or an unreliable
power source, which is why it was so important to get a journalling
filesystem like reiserfs integrated into Linux.
You can of course export almost all UNIX filesystems to NT networks
via samba.
Joe
------------------------------
From: "Uncle Davey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:37:22 +0100
"Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9b5ao2$eq7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Uncle Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> : news:9b3td9$mhj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> :> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Russianbear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> : wrote:
> :>
> :> : Bah - If there is a God he is no better than a common dictator and
there
> : is
> :> : NO reason at all to worship him. Anyone who says live by my rules or
be
> :> : punished with death or eternal damnation is an asshole.
> :>
> :>
> :> First of all, God has only two main rules, according to Jesus. First
> :> is to love Him. Second is to love your neighbor.
> :>
> :> I don't think those are unreasonable requests.
> :>
> :>
>
> : So it's okay to have sex as long as you love God and love the person
you're
> : having sex with.
>
>
> If you love her, why not marry her?
>
>
> Joe
Good idea.
That's exactly what I'll do, just as soon as I divorce my wife.
Uncle Davey
(Thanks for the confirmation, brother)
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:47:26 GMT
Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
> >
> > Umm... the registry is not the reason apps require reboots.
>
> You're right... its often the reason for the Blue Screen of Doh!
>
> > Generally
> > speaking, there are three reasons an install wants to reboot:
> >
> > 1) It has attempted to update a locked file, such as a system file.
>
> Then stop the services that are using the file first. If the services
> are network services, "telinit 1" would do the trick.
bringing a unix box down to single user mode (which is what telinit 1
does unless you have a non-standard configuration) is near to
rebooting. you kick all users off, terminate their processes and stop
nearly all services. while the box is not technically rebooted, it
*is* an interruption of normal operations.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: Chronos Tachyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something cool in gcc
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:48:44 GMT
On Sat 14 Apr 2001 10:51, mlw wrote:
[Snip]
>
> Oops, yes, that is right. I was not talking about the return type, I was
> talking about the structure of the function, lacking the return was a
> typo. (The compiler would have gotten it)
>
> void function(char *str)
> {
> printf("%s\n", str);
> }
>
Yep, much better :-). I'd figured it was probably a typo in the first
place, but what the heck.
> How's that? It is a valid function in both C and C++.
>
> One need not go overboard with iostreams and crap like that in C++ if they
> desire not.
>
> My point is C++ is a superset of C.
>
Well, it does still bring up the interesting point that the following code
snippet is legal C but not C++:
function(char *str)
{
printf("%s\n", str);
return 0;
}
But that is, of course, just nitpicking.
--
Chronos Tachyon
Guardian of Eristic Paraphernalia
Gatekeeper of the Region of Thud
[Reply instructions: My real domain is "echo <address> | cut -d. -f6,7"]
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something cool in gcc
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:49:54 GMT
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>
> > Or it was actually compiled as C code and gcc is trying to support C99
> > features. Note the OP said "C/C++" - some mythical language nobody's
ever
> > heard of - but it sure as hell _looks_ like C code, not C++ code.
>
> It amazes me that people draw such a distinction between C++ from C.
>
> function(char *str)
> {
> printf("%s\n", str);
> }
>
> The above function is perfectly valid C++ code. It is also perfectly valid
C
> code.
Yup. #include <stdio.h> however is strictly C. Also, printf is generally
discouraged in C++, since it isn't typesafe, while cout is typesafe.
>
> typedef struct _stuff
> {
> int a;
> int b;
> char datum[1];
> }STUFF, *PSTUFF;
>
> The above structure definition is perfectly valid in C and C++.
It is? I thought _stuff would break a rule about reservered identifiers.
> Aside from some very obscure differences, C++ is a superset of C.
Obscure? Let's see:
/* file1.c */
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
int main(int new, char **class)
{
double *d;
d = malloc( 100 * sizeof *d );
if ( d ) free ( d );
return 0;
}
Let's see; <stdio.h> isn't C++. Nor is <stdlib.h>. The use of new and
class are perfectly valid in C. Try it in C++. Using malloc without a cast
of the return type is correct C (casting is a bad idea; it masks certain
conditions which should result in diagnostics) but you cannot use malloc
without the cast in C++. None of these are particularly obscure. The
differences in the results of sizeof('a') might be considered a little more
obscure, I suppose, given that it's an unusual construct in the first place,
but the others? Don't think so.
> So the
> statement, saying "C/C++" is perfectly valid when discussing features
common to
> both. One would not use "C/C++" when discussing classes.
Features such as <stdio.h> ?
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something cool in gcc
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:50:56 GMT
[snips]
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> (The compiler would have gotten it)
>
> void function(char *str)
> {
> printf("%s\n", str);
> }
>
> How's that? It is a valid function in both C and C++.
>
> One need not go overboard with iostreams and crap like that in C++ if they
> desire not.
>
> My point is C++ is a superset of C.
Then your point is wrong, plain and simple.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:59:28 GMT
Johan Kullstam wrote:
>
> Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
> > >
> > > Umm... the registry is not the reason apps require reboots.
> >
> > You're right... its often the reason for the Blue Screen of Doh!
> >
> > > Generally
> > > speaking, there are three reasons an install wants to reboot:
> > >
> > > 1) It has attempted to update a locked file, such as a system file.
> >
> > Then stop the services that are using the file first. If the services
> > are network services, "telinit 1" would do the trick.
>
> bringing a unix box down to single user mode (which is what telinit 1
> does unless you have a non-standard configuration) is near to
> rebooting. you kick all users off, terminate their processes and stop
> nearly all services. while the box is not technically rebooted, it
> *is* an interruption of normal operations.
You're absolutely right. I was thinking about my own little UNIX box.
Guess I've been working on single-user operating systems (Windows)
too much the last few years.
How about just a "/etc/.../network stop" where any other applicable
service can sub for "network"?
Chris (the occasional fool)
--
This application has crashed unexpectedly.
Hit OK to terminate, or Cancel to debug it.
Doh!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: 14 Apr 2001 16:41:39 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Regardless...the truth is quite evident.
>
> He gives the source (DEC tapes), and the use of CTRL-Z as end-of-file
> is the smoking gun.
Aaeron, *that* was copied from CP/M, and it was copied by Seattle Computer
Services (Systems?) before Microsoft bought QDOS from them and renamed it
MS-DOS. And on top of that, I don't know of any DEC operating system that
uses a ^Z as an end-of-file marker. The ones I'm familiar with all use
fairly complex record-oriented files.
The smoke you're smelling isn't from Microsoft's gun.
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT is stagnant while Linux explodes
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:01:13 GMT
Chad Everett wrote:
>
> And, or course, if you're going to compare Windows bugs with Unix bugs,
> then you need to compare Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows CE, Windows 98,
> Windows 98 2nd edition, Windows NT SP1 SP2 SP3 SP4 SP5 SP6, Windows 2K Pro,
> Windows 2K Server, Windows NT Server, etc. bugs with Unix bugs.
You forgot Windows 2K Pro SP1.
--
This application has crashed unexpectedly.
Hit OK to terminate, or Cancel to debug it.
Doh!
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From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something like Install Shield for Linux?
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:02:41 GMT
[snips]
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > I figured. You're starting to sound like an MS salesman.
> >
> > Why? Because I happen to think this is a good technology, and I'm using
it
> > as a counter to some of the typical anti-Windows noise?
>
> No, because you are comparing unlike things to make MS look good. I did
> not know what MSI is/was and you presented it as an alternative to RPM.
> It is apparently not that, but some sort of enterprise management tool.
What does RPM do? It installs products. What does MSI do? It installs
products. That RPM is woefully lacking in supporting the range of things
that "installing products" can actually involve isn't my problem, but RPM's.
> > Hey, if I could find a comparable technology available free for Linux,
>
> Why does it have to be free? If you are rolling out 10K desktops, I
> would think you would have a budget. Is there something wrong with
> paying for software you need?
Nope. If you're in the enterprise market, you have money. This of course
also puts a hole in the usual pro-Linux argument about it being cheaper; in
that sort of environment, software costs are, quite likely, the least
significant thing on your plate.
> Yes, it only runs on Windows is what I meant. Microsoft does still have
> to support non-MS applications.
>
> > True enough. Where can I get RPM for my C64? Or even for Windows?
>
> I'm pretty sure that the rpm sources will build under Cygwin and on most
> Unix variants.
Good. Does it handle per-user vs per-machine installations? Registry
settings? Installation, removal, stopping and starting of services? Does
it understand Windows file versioning rules? Is it smart enough to add the
correct boot-time updating settings to handle updates of locked files?
> Probably not on a C64 though. That comment is, however, the sort of
> dismissive comment that I would expect from an MS salesman.
For the record here, I could care less about Microsoft. I've been using
Linux and Windows about 50/50 for a while now, and they both have their
benefits - and drawbacks. Shall I say "This noise about RPM is about what
I'd expect from a Linux salesman" just because you seem to be describing RPM
as a viable tool? Don't get too silly here.
> You are talking about enterprise deployment, which is not the problem
> RPM was designed to solve. Therefore comparing MSI with RPM is
> meaningless.
Really? Why? RPM is an OS-provided product installation technology. MSI
is an OS-provided product installation technology. MSI just happens to cope
with the full scope of product installation instead of taking the myopic
view that the universe consists of a single PC.
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