Linux-Advocacy Digest #637, Volume #33 Mon, 16 Apr 01 04:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company (Pete Goodwin)
Re: So much for modules in Linux! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: So much for modules in Linux! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: So much for modules in Linux! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux = CHOICE! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (silverback)
Re: Linux = CHOICE! (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Linux = CHOICE! (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: there's always a bigger fool (Matthew Gardiner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:54:10 GMT
Terry Porter wrote:
>> Of course it works fine under Windows.
>
> Please leave out the 'of course' as Windows does not always work 'fine'.
It does for me.
> For instance,in both Win95 *and* Win98, Windows is simply not able to
> find the interrupt settings of my NE 2000 ISA cards. Linux does not need
> manual intervention here, as Windows does.
Well, stop using ISA and switch to PCI as it works?
>> I'm coming to a simple conclusion about Linux - it's a half baked
>> solution created by a bunch of amateurs and as such, it shows, believe me
>> it shows.
>
> Goodwin, your own lack of experience with Linux is what shows.
No, it is Linux + KDE that is the problem. Don't blame me, I'm just a
messenger.
>> Some bits and pieces are pretty good - Apache for instance, but some bits
>> are real ropey. KDE for instance. Some of the crashes I've seen with it
>> beggar belief:
>
> I've been telling you for ages now, KDE is under development, use
> something that is stable and reliable. I use Blackbox and this is fast and
> easy to use.
THEN WHY IS IT NOT MARKED AS UNDER DEVELOPMENT???
> Sure it doesnt have the eye candy of KDE or Gnome, but I use my pc for
> *work*, not purely entertainment.
And what do you think I use my PC for?
Sure I play games on it, but not all the time.
> Don't use KDE ?
Suddenly the so called choices on Linux start to drop. GNOME is the
alternative. What happens if I don't like GNOME? Tough, is that it?
>> Windows crashes, Windows isn't stable, but I see much worse with KDE.
> I believe you.
>
> KDE *is not* Linux.
Ah here we go again.
--
Pete
Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
Kylix: the way to go!
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:55:48 GMT
Chad Everett wrote:
> I don't think your assertions about KDE are valid any longer. It is rock
> solid stable on my system, and fast too. GNOME is still having some
> stability problems with Nautilus and Ximian support only sparce number
> of dists, and this last GNOME 1.4 release is looking very sloppy.
Really?
Let me see...
1. Empty the trash can and watch as my desktop emptied.
2. Watch as all KDE applications crash one by one, with the KDE crash
handler appearing for each one. Then the taskbar appeared twice.
3. Drag and drop a directory and watch as the desktop emptied as in 1.
The solution to the above was to press CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE which causes X to
die.
4. Everything froze, no keyboard or mouse.
There was no solution as all keyboard activity was dead. Reboot as no
TELNET either.
You have a strange definition of 'rock solid'.
--
Pete
Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
Kylix: the way to go!
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So much for modules in Linux!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:57:57 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
> If you need a module loaded, why don't you just add
> insmod module_name
> or
> modprobe module_name
>
> at the point where you want it? Or rename the script so it will
> execute later if that accomplishes the same thing? This is
> approximately as difficult as knowing when to right-mouse instead
> of double-click in a GUI.
I moved DHCP to after the network loaded. It still loaded DHCP before
loading the network modules.
--
Pete
Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
Kylix: the way to go!
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So much for modules in Linux!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:59:24 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
> Editing a text file is trivial. Making a link is trivial. If you can
> make something work when executing it by hand, making it work by the above
> two steps is trivial.
I moved DHCP to after loading the network. It made no difference.
--
Pete
Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
Kylix: the way to go!
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So much for modules in Linux!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 07:01:04 GMT
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> Actually I was replying to :-
> On 11 Apr 2001 02:02:03 -0700,
> pete_answers@x <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This poster is not you ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is it Pete ?
No it wasn't me. I'm the one losing my marbles I think. I apologise.
--
Pete
Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
Kylix: the way to go!
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux = CHOICE!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 07:17:01 GMT
Ed Allen wrote:
>>These multiple choices could be Linux undoing.
>>
> No they represent strength because each will reach into crevices
> that the "one thing for everybody" Windows world cannot reach.
See later in my post as to why multiple choices could be Linux undoing.
>>SuSE does it one way, Mandrake does it another. Can you imagine the
>>development nightmare of installing on just two systems that have
>>different configuration structure?
>>
> Unix vendors have been doing it for years.
>
> I does mean that crapware will fail but most of us look forward to
> that.
Ah, the old argument, "we've done it that way for years". Does that make it
right? What's wrong with change?
>>Is that why we see a KDE 2.1 RPM for Mandrake, SuSE and RedHat? Why
>>doesn't one work for all? Is this what choice brings us to?
>>
> It could be that they each have different administration tools.
>
> Why is it a big deal ? Are you planning to try loading the SuSE one
> on Mandrake as your next Linux failure ? Don't bother none of us
> will sympathize.
You miss the point. If I want to release a RPM for systems, it appears I
need one for SuSE, one for Mandrake, one for RedHat etc. etc. This is where
'choice' works against you.
>>Standardisation works to eliminate the variations and make development
>>life easier.
>
> That was the point of my original rant.
And how are you answering my post?
> Easy times for developers are about to end.
They ended a long time ago from what I can see.
> Only smart ones who are willing to try providing more than their
> competitors will survive more than a few months.
How are they 'smarter'? Try 'more determined'.
> Profiteering is no longer acceptable. A vendor who does not work
> hard to please me and lots of others does not deserve our money.
Seems to working for Microsoft.
>>There's no terror here! With Windows it becomes rather easy to configure
>>things, there in one place. Is that true of Linux? Let me see:
>>
> Unlike you many people like to decide for themselves what they want.
Yes, I want a system that works. I've tried Linux + KDE, oh dear, it's not
as stable as it's hyped up to be. I choose Windows instead.
> Most Linux advocates do not want to turn off our brains. We prefer
> to do the thinking and leave Redmond to their own criminal
> activities which the courts will soon put a stop to.
Do you seriously believe I turn off my brain when I use Windows? Ever tried
programming it? Oh yeah, you don't need a brain for that? HAH!
The courts appear ready to throw out the case. As for 'soon' are you a
Christian? They've been waiting for 2000 years.
>>Mandrake:
>>/etc/rc.d/init.d/smb restart
>>
>>SuSE:
>>/etc/init.d/dhclient restart
> There is a symbolic link which makes SuSE respond to
> /etc/rc.d/init.d as well.
No there isn't. I did check.
> What has a DHCP client got to do with Samba ?
Woops! Slipped up in the example. Try:
Mandrake:
/etc/rc.d/init.d/smb restart
SuSE:
/etc/init.d/smb restart
>>Microsoft _is_ a monopoly. The only people who aren't seeing this the last
>>time I looked was the court.
>>
> You are the first WinTroll to admit that in this forum that I
> recall.
I've said it before. Did you miss it?
> The court of Judge Jackson has convicted them and they are appealing
> the remedy he proposed not the monopolization charges themselves.
And the current court is upholding this? Last time I looked that was
unlikely.
> The conviction will stand and we will be finding out about the
> remedies before summer.
It looks as though there will be _nothing_ done.
>>And how does supporting Linux help work for a living? How do you get paid?
>>Selling distributions? Not enough! Writing software - most of it is free!
>>
> Most of the software programmers are paid to write is customization
> of generic packages and in house stuff to support their business.
And the other guys writing Linux itself? Or other packages and tools? How
are they paid?
The fact is they are _not_ paid. You need another job if you want to
release Open Source software.
> Having sales people soap them up prior to their next screwing will
> not survive so most of the "software" vendors of today are looking
> forward to bankruptcy I think.
HAH! Really! I work for a company that doesn't follow your model and we're
doing rather well than you. As are most of the other companies. I don't see
this ending any time soon.
My last company, Digital Equipment Corporation latested longer than twelve
years before they were swallowed by Compaq.
> That is what scares the WinTrolls, that the victims are wise enough
> not to submit to abuse a second time and that they must keep coming
> up with new things because many of their most lucrative scams have
> been cloned under the GPL.
Most 'victims' (your word, not mine) are not bright enough to even
understand how software works, let along ring up with a solution to a bug!!!
> The "software production" profiteering is wheezing its last gasp.
I think not. You're in a dream world.
> W2K has proven to be the biggest flop since MS Bob.
Still selling though, isn't it.
> I hope we see the start of another antitrust trial the week it is
> released.
Another one that gets lobotomised out of existance like the current one?
--
Pete
Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
Kylix: the way to go!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback)
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 05:41:45 GMT
On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 14:00:58 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Charles Lyttle wrote:
>>
>> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>> >
>> > Mathew wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Jim Richardson wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:51:42 GMT,
>> > > > silverback, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> > > > brought forth the following words...:
>> > > >
>> > > > >On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:24:34 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
>> > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >>Goldhammer wrote:
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:33:15 -0400,
>> > > > >>> Rob Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> > Right. Fascism is characterized by the *state-directed* control of
>> > > > >>> >the economy,
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> Hmm. Sounds like communism.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>Precisely.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>Communism and Fascism are merely different sides of the same coin.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >bullshit you lying sack of shit. Fascism is the polar opposite of
>> > > > >communism. They have nothing in common.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Fascicsm=control by a ruling oligarchy that murders it's population.
>> > > > Communism=control by a ruling oligarchy that murders it's population.
>> > >
>> > > What about Capitalist Fascist dictatorships like the
>> > > Philippines,particulary under Marcos.
>> >
>> > Capitalism and Fascism are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TERMS, you goddmned fucking moron.
>> >
>>
>> BZZZZT. Wrong. Both the Italian and Spanish Fascist governments were
>> very capitalistic. Capital is just one of the Bunds that make up a
>> Fascist government. Labor, Church, Military are three others.
>
>Wrong. Free Markets are fundamental to the definition of Capitalism.
>Fascism's oppressive state involvement in the economy PREVENTS any
wrong fuckhead fascism is based on corporate rule. Fascism is a
capitalistic society.
>true Free Market...thus, Capitalism and Fascism are mutually exclusive.
nope they go hand in hand with each other liar.
>
>Hope that helps, uneducated fool.
>
>>
>> Japan and several other Asian/Pacific countries also adopted variants of
>> Fascism. In Japan the primary Bunds today are Merchant, Farmer,
>> Industry, the Military haveing fallen in disgrace after WWII.
>
>Scott Erb (Professional blackboard washer), are you listening????
>
>
>
>>
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > wow! no similarity there!
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Jim Richardson
>> > > > Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
>> > > > WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
>> > > > Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Aaron R. Kulkis
>> > Unix Systems Engineer
>> > DNRC Minister of all I survey
>> > ICQ # 3056642
>> >
>> > L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
>> > can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> > K: Truth in advertising:
>> > Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
>> > Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
>> > Special Interest Sierra Club,
>> > Anarchist Members of the ACLU
>> > Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
>> > The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
>> > Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>> >
>> > J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
>> > The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
>> > also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>> >
>> > I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
>> > challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
>> > between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
>> > Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>> >
>> > H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
>> > premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
>> > you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
>> > you are lazy, stupid people"
>> >
>> > G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>> >
>> > F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
>> > adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>> >
>> > E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
>> > her behavior improves.
>> >
>> > D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
>> > ...despite (C) above.
>> >
>> > C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>> >
>> > B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
>> > method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
>> > direction that she doesn't like.
>> >
>> > A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>>
>> --
>> Russ Lyttle
>> "World Domination through Penguin Power"
>> The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
>> <http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
>
>
>--
>Aaron R. Kulkis
>Unix Systems Engineer
>DNRC Minister of all I survey
>ICQ # 3056642
>
>L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
> can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
>
>J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
>I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
>H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
>G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
>
>F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
>E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
>D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
>C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
>B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
>A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
***********************************************
GDY Weasel
emailers remove the spam buster
For those seeking enlightenment visit the White Rose at
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/whiterose.htm
*********************************************
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux = CHOICE!
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:46:07 +1200
here is a TLA, LSB, the solution for the so-called fragmentation of
Linux.
Matthew Garidner
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> Ed Allen wrote:
>
> > The choice of multiple alternatives at several different levels like the
> > installer, the GUI admin tools, the users desktop, the group of apps in
> > a particular distribution, the mixture of GPL vs proprietary, the focus
> > of the patches and tunings applied to the standard kernel.
>
> These multiple choices could be Linux undoing.
>
> SuSE does it one way, Mandrake does it another. Can you imagine the
> development nightmare of installing on just two systems that have different
> configuration structure?
>
> Is that why we see a KDE 2.1 RPM for Mandrake, SuSE and RedHat? Why doesn't
> one work for all? Is this what choice brings us to?
>
> > All those choices at those and many other points are why we will always
> > have multiple distributions and will eventually see multiple offerings
> > from each distribution vendor.
>
> Standardisation works to eliminate the variations and make development life
> easier.
>
> > We have seen only the tip of the diversity landscape so far. The 2.5
> > kernels will bring with them a language allow opening up whole new
> > territories of combinations which would have required advice from a
> > kernel developer before.
>
> Ack! More confusion, here we come!
>
> > What terrifies the WinTrolls is that knowledgeable choices by consumers
> > means that they cannot be forced into three to five piles like the
> > ignorant ones can.
>
> There's no terror here! With Windows it becomes rather easy to configure
> things, there in one place. Is that true of Linux? Let me see:
>
> Mandrake:
> /etc/rc.d/init.d/smb restart
>
> SuSE:
> /etc/init.d/dhclient restart
>
> > That is why they are so adamant that MS is not really a monopoly,
> > because their complicity in fleecing the public might get noticed.
>
> Microsoft _is_ a monopoly. The only people who aren't seeing this the last
> time I looked was the court.
>
> > Yes the WinTrolls are strongly attempting to deny that their gravy train
> > is about to end and they will need to *work* for a living. Anything but
> > that !
>
> And how does supporting Linux help work for a living? How do you get paid?
> Selling distributions? Not enough! Writing software - most of it is free!
>
> --
> Pete
> Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
> Kylix: the way to go!
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux = CHOICE!
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:47:53 +1200
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> Ed Allen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : The choice of multiple alternatives at several different levels like the
> : installer, the GUI admin tools, the users desktop, the group of apps in
> : a particular distribution, the mixture of GPL vs proprietary, the focus
> : of the patches and tunings applied to the standard kernel.
>
> : All those choices at those and many other points are why we will always
> : have multiple distributions and will eventually see multiple offerings
> : from each distribution vendor.
>
> For some people, the choice of distro comes to the install itself. For that, I
> like the BSD-like install with Slackware. I tried Red Hat but didn't like the
> install becuse it's not flexible. Others will disagree. <donning asbestos
> space suit>
>
> --
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
> The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
> The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
Shit, I'm not going to flame you, as I too have used FreeBSD, and the
installer is very flexible, however for the newbie that needs their hand
held through the installation process, a GUI based installer is the best
way to go.
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:49:45 +1200
Just as a follow up for Pete to read, isn't libc one of the most
important libraries on the OS? hence, its not just one of those minor
ones, its a major one, and requires no reboot. Now thats what I call
convenient.
Matthew Gardiner
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Matthew Gardiner
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:39:09 +1200
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >I updated my glibc from 2.1 to 2.2 and did not require a reboot.
>
> This may illustrate why Linux works better than Windows; one issue
> here is that executables requiring the services of glibc are
> pointing to one copy of the file, whereas anything started up
> after the installation of the new file will, unless they explicitly
> specify 2.1 as a version (presumably, this is done during link time
> or during dlopen() time by appending the version number), get
> the new version.
>
> Heaven help the sysadmin types if there are incompatibilities between
> 2.1 and 2.2. However, that's extremely rare, though I suspect
> something like that has happened on Unix.
>
> The only way to deal with that is to kill all daemons referring to
> glibc -- unfortunately, that includes init. Reboot time! But
> again, that's extremely rare -- and its even rarer because Linux
> doesn't support the notion of a global shared data segment between all
> processes using a certain library; if a process wants functionality
> like that, one has to use mmap(), read it from a file, or otherwise
> deal with this lack, and most Unix utilities functions are
> downward-compatible, which has the downside of a number of
> deprecated switches on occasion (make(1), for example,
> ignores the switches -b and -m). One hopes in the case of mmap()
> that all writers respect the original version and that the file
> itself can be upgraded once the system reboots. (Note that glibc
> implements mmap(), but AFAIK no call within glibc uses it.)
>
> An example of a system which might have had shared-data per library
> was the Amiga, which had true shared libraries (but no
> memory mapping). However, it wasn't automatic; the library had to
> set it up and maintain it itself.
>
> By contrast, NT doesn't implement versioning on their DLLs beyond
> the relatively crude 'msvcrt20.dll' and 'mfc30.dll'. Presumably,
> the installer moves them out of the way, but the DLL loader -- I
> think -- will load exactly one copy of a DLL, and, until needed,
> will not unload it; NT therefore thinks that the old copy of the DLL
> is the same as the new and won't load the new one. I think
> the name is 'MSVCRT20' or 'MFC30'.
>
> (Linux does the same, but the name is the full file pathname,
> which means the control is finer and much more reliable. Also,
> I think the device and inode gets involved in there somewhere; two
> different files will not have the same device and inode.
> I'd have to look, but AFAIK Linux can share physical code pages,
> as can NT.)
>
> >
> >Matthew Gardiner
> >
> >Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >>
> >> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > [snips]
> >> > >
> >> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > >
> >> > > > Since there is no junior-high-designed "registry" to get corrupted,
> >> > > > there is ZERO need to shut down other programs to install a new app.
> >> > >
> >> > > Umm... the registry is not the reason apps require reboots. Generally
> >> > > speaking, there are three reasons an install wants to reboot:
> >> > >
> >> > > 1) It has attempted to update a locked file, such as a system file.
> >> > > 2) It has installed something expected to run during the startup phase
> >> of
> >> > > operations
> >> > > 3) It is installing a service (not in the NT sense, but in the sense of
> >> a
> >> > > background application or library) which needs to be launched in order
> >> to
> >> > > work
> >> > >
> >> > > One might suggest that in the case of #3, a better approach could be
> >> used.
> >> > > I agree. In the cases of #2 and #1, I'm not sure how, given such an
> >> > > application being installed, Linux would handle this any better; how
> >> exactly
> >> > > does Linux handle live patching of the kernel, for example, without
> >> > > rebooting?
> >> > >
> >> > Just in regards to:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Linux has most, if not all libraries installed required for most
> >> > software, however, when more libraries need to be installed, no reboot
> >> > is required. Under O/S 2 Warp 4, you had to reboot after applying a
> >> > service pack (because it included low-level drivers, kernel updates
> >> > etc), however, in an application sense, it should not be required.
> >>
> >> What about needing to update those libraries?
> >>
> >> > 2. Can be started then and there. Just like if I want to add support for
> >> > a USB Zip drive, I simply drop into shell and type: insmod usb-storage,
> >> > and voila, instant access to my hardware. I have installed Solaris
> >> > patches and the only time you need to reboot is when the kernel has been
> >> > updated, however, it is not forced, unlike Microsoft Windows.
> >>
> >> I don't think he meant this, there are several stuff that *need* reboot,
> >> because they can't be done when the computer is running.
> >> Converting the FS type of the system partition, or making changes to it,
> >> frex.
> >> I don't think that you can do that in linux without reboot either.
> >>
> >> > 3. Services, yet another thing that can be started on the fly. For
> >> > example, I could start up Apache without needing to reboot. I could
> >> > start Squid proxy with out a reboot.
> >>
> >> Dito for NT. There is nothing to prevent you from starting & shutting down
> >> services whenever you like it.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > What I am pointing out is that, if you take a kernel upgrade out of the
> >> > equation, a OS should never need to be rebooted, and hopefully once
> >> > hot-plug PCI becomes more mainstream, even needing to shut down the
> >> > computer to install hardware will become a thing of the past.
> >>
> >> I fully agree.
> >> Something to point out, though. Ninety nine precent of the applications that
> >> want reboot, don't need it. It's something that had been there because of
> >> 9x. And I certnaily close none of my applications to install new ones.
> >> (Well, I log in as another user via TS, but that is another matter.)
> >
> >--
> >I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operater from Hell)
> >
> >If you donot like it go [#rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
> >
> >Running SuSE Linux 7.1 Pro w/ Kernel 2.4.2
> >
> >SuSE, the best of German engineering, now in software form :)
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 8d:10h:21m actually running Linux.
> Use the source, Luke.
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
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