Linux-Advocacy Digest #86, Volume #34             Tue, 1 May 01 10:13:04 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Linux advocacy tip #1 (Star Office and ODBC) (mlw)
  LILO  3022 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Intel versus Sparc (mlw)
  Re: OEM Windows licenses not transferable to charities ("Donal K. Fellows")
  Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Stefaan A Eeckels)
  Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Vid Strpic)
  Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product ("MH")
  Re: Help: Bought out by MS geeks... ("MH")
  Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: AMD is to Intel as "What OS" is to Windows? ("Andy Jeffries")
  Re: OEM Windows licenses not transferable to charities ("Ayende Rahien")
  Re: OEM Windows licenses not transferable to charities ("Ayende Rahien")
  Re: Microsoft and McCartheism (Matthew Gardiner)
  EASY MONEY IN NO TIME!!! ("Pera kojot")

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux advocacy tip #1 (Star Office and ODBC)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 08:19:11 -0400

Geez, I should realy proof read this stuff BEFORE I press send. lol

-- 
I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: LILO  3022
Date: 1 May 2001 13:18:25 GMT

Caros Amigos

Instalei o Red Hat 5.2 correctamente. lilo e tudo, só que tenho o WinMe
instalado no disco principal. O linux a+enas me arranca com a disquete de
arranque e não com o lilo do disco (Esta na partição do linux)

Poderiam ajudar-me?
dlrjndxzsijzfykciqqsqbkyyorsbkiqzpkoyrtynecxzrwzrzwxgtvrmwg


------------------------------

From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel versus Sparc
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 08:28:23 -0400

"Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
> 
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
> > Figured it couldn't be compiler bugs!  After some
> > more dicking around with cleaning up some of
> > the myriad of warnings, I noticed that the
> > bad function was pushing an array of structures
> > onto the stack.  Looking at the size of the array,
> > found it was 64 Mb!
> 
> As others have pointed out, it is customary to use the heap for
> humongous data structures.
> 
> Meanwhile, you might want to use your favorite search engine to find out
> how you can change the stack size on your x86 machine if it's running
> Linux.  (I'd tell you how, but I've never needed to do it.  When my
> programs exceed the default, I modify them then and there, because I
> don't want to have to ask everyone who uses them to change their stack
> settings too.)

ulimit -s <size in kilobytes>

> 
> > So, be careful about thinking PC's are the best
> > things around, just because they are much more
> > powerful than they used to be.
> 
> I'd happily exchange my x86 system for a top of the line Alpha, if only
> I didn't have to pay for it.
> 
> No one with half a clue is under any illusion that PCs are the best
> things around.
> 

PC's are not the best, but they are cheap. For the cost of one Sun 450, I can
get 8-10 pretty good dual PIII  based servers.

PCs are also getting much better. PCI bridges are improving, and Linux is also
getting better. 

With very few exceptions, I could not justify anything but a PC for most
applications.



-- 
I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com

------------------------------

From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: OEM Windows licenses not transferable to charities
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:20:01 +0100

Ayende Rahien wrote:
> BTW, if you want to see a language that is designed, manufactured & intended
> to use on jazardous enviroments requireing fail-safe performance, check out
> Ada.
> Beside being really nice to programmers ( if it compiles, it probably
> works), it has the best new type creation system that I've seen.

That never follows.  The more restrictive the compiler checks, the greater
the proportion of faults in the software that are nasty ones due to things
like mis-speficiation.  No programming language can guard against that,
even with a formal development system (which Ada isn't.)

> I do wonder what Sun does with J2EE if Java is not designed or intended to
> on-line control equipment, though.

I imagine that you can get stronger guarantees from Sun for Java if you
pay them large enough amounts of money.  It's a matter of paying their
indemnity insurance premiums...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows    http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/    [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- OK, there is the MFC, but it only makes the chaos object orientated.
                                        -- Thomas Nellessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:39:35 GMT

Wrong..

Never worked for IBM.

But I do know quite a bit about IBM including what I posted which I
notice you have conveniently avoided replying to.

So where IS IBM using Linux on the desktop within it's organization,
excluding R+D?


Flatfish


On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:32:49 +0000, "Gary Hallock"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Terry Porter"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:00:10 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>> AIX with SMIT  Perspectives (on an SP system) is pure joy compared to
>>> the jumble of Linux.
>> Ive always said that 
>> "Steve,Mike,Heather,Simon,teknite,keymaster,keys88,Sewer Rat,
>> S,Sponge,Sarek,piddy,McSwain,pickle_pete,Ishmeal_hafizi,Amy,
>> Simon777,Claire,Flatfish+++,Flatfish"> 
>> 
>> works for IBM, and mucks around in the garage at home,being a after
>> hours dj wanabee.
>>  
>> 
>
>Not quite.  Worked at IBM until he/she got canned back in 1994.  Flatso is
>still bitter about that and vents his/her frustration here.
>
>Gary


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:41:55 GMT

R+D Gary...

How about the the other 95 percent of the company?

Sales/marketing, Global Services, ICC, the various support centers?
THCAG group....on and aon.

They are all using Windows in one form or another.

Flatfish




On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:19:25 +0000, "Gary Hallock"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>wrote:
>
>> Obviously you haven't been reading your Lotus Notes lately.
>> 
>> Nix in no way shape or form is the dominent desktop system in that
>> company. Maybe the research dept's use it, but everyone else is using
>> Windows, and most are still using Windows 95. That includes the sales
>> force, billing, support centers (which just switched to NT4 BTW).
>> 
>> You need to get out of the cubicle a little more Gary :)
>>
>
>
>Tell me, flatso, where do you get this info from?   I work there.
>You just like to play pirated mp3 files on Wintendo.   If you manage to
>get through security sometime, take a walk down the isles in Pok,
>Fishkill, Austin, Rochester, Haifa, Watson, or Boeblingen   You will see offcies
>filled with AIX and Linux boxes.  Walk by my office.  You'll see 5 boxes
>there - 3 Linux and 2 AIX.
>
>And you haven't supported your original statement - that I am going to
>have to get use to W2K.  Please tell me why.
>
>Gary


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 13:11:50 +0200

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
        [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Floyd) writes:
> On 1 May 2001 09:00:16 GMT, Chris Croughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>>What's so "weird" about that?
>>
>>Er:
>>
>>h = move left a character
>>j = move down a line
>>k = move up a line
>>l = move right a character
>>
>>Not everything is mnemonic...
> 
> And pressing "l" to move right seems especially illogical - though I'm
> using vi to type this!

Wasn't that borrowed from the cursor movement keys in adventure?

-- 
Stefaan
-- 
How's it supposed to get the respect of management if you've got just
one guy working on the project?  It's much more impressive to have a
battery of programmers slaving away. -- Jeffrey Hobbs (comp.lang.tcl)

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Vid Strpic)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Date: 1 May 2001 12:30:06 GMT

Joerg Schilling said unto us in comp.unix.advocacy :
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Rich Teer  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>UNIX does have GUI email clients too, ya know.  Probably got there before
>>Windoze, too.
> 
> I know Sun's mailtool (GUI) since 1985, so it _was_ there in 1984!
> 
> What did M$ this thime ?

M$ Windows 1.0 dates somewhere in 1985., so ... ;)))


   Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines.
-- 
    ))
  C|~~|     Vid Strpic, IRC:*@Martin, [EMAIL PROTECTED], /bin/zsh.
   `--'        (I don't speak for my employer, just for myself.)
  C|N>K     UNIX fundamentalist - and an average chauvinistic male.

------------------------------

From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:55:01 GMT


"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...

> On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:49:22 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > "Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message

> >> Yeah these Wintrollslike you need to get a life, and advocate your sad
> >> Ms OS, in the relevant groups.

> Sorry Eric, I wasnt replying to anything you wrote, if I did by mistake
> then I apologise.

A little late, don't you think? Do you normally run around closing barn
doors after the horses are out?
Just because this individual is astute in matters pertaining to the poor
excuse for discourse in this group, you feel the need to kiss his ass when
he calls you for what you are and have been ever since the inception of this
group? This is REALLY funny! Post more like this, would you?

> Flatfish and occasionally Pete Goodwin get me going, but I have never
> classified you as a Wintroll.

Excuse me,.. I'm tearing up ...someone get me a Kleenex please...

> > I appologize.  I seem to have a huge mistake by thinking you wanted to
have
> > serious discussions.  After reading the last few dozen responses from
you, I
> > realize now that you only want to call people names and insult them,
while
> > keeping your mind completely closed.
> >

> My mind isnt completely closed, I'll argue the facts with anyone who is
> logical and reasonable.

Yes it is. What part of 'after reading the last few dozen responses' are you
having trouble with there 'uber-zealot'? People aren't quite as ignorant as
you would believe. This individual has just recognized what many have for
quite some time: that you're worse than a wintroll, you bring nothing to the
party, you're devoid of currency, and you just hurl insults. WITH A CLOSED
MIND I might add.

> So far you seem to have these attributes.

Little late for you to appear civil, don't ya' think Terry? Take it like you
dish it out why don't you?
You insult people daily. This person is simply saying he doesn't take you
seriously. Sh*t, who does?
Besides, you'd disagree with the poster soon enough, and at that point
revert to the LinZealot we all know.




------------------------------

From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help: Bought out by MS geeks...
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:56:03 GMT


"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9clq65$ech1s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> kool breeze wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Guys...my company has been bought out by a company dedicated to MS.

Gee, I've got some ocean front in Nevada, real chea ....

Get real.



------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:13:35 GMT

I'm not a programmer, but I will give it a try:

use the -bM:SRE , -BE and -bnoentry flags when compiling and linking
the source code.

I have no idea what changed in V4.3 because I have never used 4.3.

Flatfish




On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:22:57 +0000, "Gary Hallock"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>wrote:
>
>> I've been using AIX for years.....
>> 
>> It is a quality system, unlike Linsux.
>> 
>
>I doubt you have ever used AIX.  Here is a test.  How do you create a
>shared library on AIX?   Tell me what changed in AIX 4.3 with regard to
>shared libraries.   
>
>Gary


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:14:26 GMT

At least I answer the questions Terry which is more than you seem
capable of doing.

Flatfish


On 01 May 2001 01:10:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
wrote:

>o


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:16:28 GMT

Nice try but your headers give you away.

Next time try booting to WIndows before posting your lame attempt.

Flatfsih


On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:49:07 -0700, "Paolo Ciambotti"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Unknown"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>[garbage snipped]
>> GoodBye Linux....
>> 
>> Flatfish
>
>Goodbye Flatfish.  Click on "subscribed newsgroups", then click on
>"comp.os.linux.advocacy", then click on "unsubscribe".  Don't go away mad,
>just go away.
>
>You've become a laughingstock even among the Windows advocates.  If you
>really want to further the cause of Microsoft, then you need to quit
>posting here, and let others who are more informed take up the cause. 
>You're a detriment, a deficit, a liability to Microsoft. I sure hope they
>aren't paying you, because if they are, they're throwing away money with
>no hope of seeing any return on the investment.


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:21:26 GMT

Terry is off his medication again. He's been "gone" for a while so
they must have let him out again.

Flatfish


On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:49:22 -0500, "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> Yeah these Wintrollslike you need to get a life, and advocate your sad
>> Ms OS, in the relevant groups.
>
>I appologize.  I seem to have a huge mistake by thinking you wanted to have
>serious discussions.  After reading the last few dozen responses from you, I
>realize now that you only want to call people names and insult them, while
>keeping your mind completely closed.
>
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Andy Jeffries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: AMD is to Intel as "What OS" is to Windows?
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 14:19:24 +0100

>     When I wrote an article about this
> http://www.ratrobot.com/ms/ms.htm

Did you use that awful background to force people to use Lynx?

Couldn't you put some server side code in to only send that out if the
user-agent is Internet Explorer? :-)

Cheers,


-- 
Andy Jeffries
Lead-developer of Scramdisk for Linux
Developer of original Scramdisk Delphi Component

------------------------------

From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: OEM Windows licenses not transferable to charities
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:19:00 +0200


"Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > BTW, if you want to see a language that is designed, manufactured &
intended
> > to use on jazardous enviroments requireing fail-safe performance, check
out
> > Ada.
> > Beside being really nice to programmers ( if it compiles, it probably
> > works), it has the best new type creation system that I've seen.
>
> That never follows.  The more restrictive the compiler checks, the greater
> the proportion of faults in the software that are nasty ones due to things
> like mis-speficiation.  No programming language can guard against that,
> even with a formal development system (which Ada isn't.)

I'm not programming to life-critical systems.
But it's a damn nice thing to have this strong type & creation system, as
well as some other nice features.
If only C++ had them...



------------------------------

From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: OEM Windows licenses not transferable to charities
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:21:06 +0200


"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9cm3rh$ak1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...

<    Snip     >

I was talking about FUD in the way Alan said it.
Since he claimed that this section was FUD, I told him that it is not MS
that distribue it, but Sun.
Since I've encountered some bone-headed arguements before, I wanted to
counter the "it's-still-FUD" arguement before it started.



------------------------------

From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft and McCartheism
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 01:30:14 +1200

Brent R wrote:

> Nigel Feltham wrote:
>> 
>> > >>    "While stopping just short of claiming that anyone buying
>> > >>    a PC without an OS is a de facto criminal, MS obviously
>> > >>    reckons that doing so would be outré enough to qualify
>> > >>    one for suspicion, or referral to a shrink. After all,
>> > >>    no sane person is going to muck up a perfectly good new box
>> > >>    with BeOS or Linux or something freaky like that. Right? ®"
>> > >>
>> 
>> This is not exactly new news anyway - slashdot reported the same thing a
>> few months ago and also had a mirror of a page which MS had on their site
>> for a short while which stated users who buy PC's with no OS are likely
>> to be pirates. Perhaps someone here can remember the URL?
> 
> MS removed the site.
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/oem/nakedPC.htm
> 
Mind you, it probably give's Chad Myers the warm fuzzies that his ass 
belongs to Microsoft.

Matthew Gardiner

-- 
Disclaimer:

I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)

If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself

Running SuSE Linux 7.1

The best of German engineering, now in software form

------------------------------

From: "Pera kojot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 
comp.os.geos.programmer,comp.os.inferno,comp.os.lantastic,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.alpha
Subject: EASY MONEY IN NO TIME!!!
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:38:38 +0200


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Postings In Different Settings, You Will Always Have This File To Go
Back
To.

STEP4:Use Netscape Or Internet Explorer And Try Searching For Various
Newsgroups (On-Line Forums, Message Boards, Chat Sites,Discussions.)

Step5:Visit These Message Boars And Post This Article As A New
Message By
Highlighting The Text Of This Letter And Selecting Paste From The
Edit Menu.
Fill In The Subject (This Will Be The Header Everyone Sees As They
Scroll
Through The List Of Postings In A Particular Group, Click The Post
Button.

Congratulations, THAT'S IT!!! All You Have To Do Is Jump To Different
Newsgroups And Post Away, After You Get The Hang Of It, It Will Take
About
30 Seconds For Each  Newsgroup!

**REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN (Message Boards Etc...)
THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200.
That's IT! You Will Begin Receiving Money From Around The World
Within Days.
You May Eventually Want To Rent A P.O Box Due To The
Large Amount Of Mail You Will Receive. If You Wish To Remail
Anonymous, You
Can Invent A Name To Use, As Long As The Postman Will Deliver It.
**JUST
MAKE SURE THE ADDRESS IS CORRECT**

Say, I Receive Only 5 Replies (A Very Low Example).
So Then, I Made $5.00 With My Name At Number 6 On The Letter. Now,
Each Of Those 5 People Who Just Sent Me $1.00 Make The MINIMUM 200
Postings, Each With My Name At #5 On The List, And Only 5 People
Respond To Each
Of The Original 5, That Is Another $25.00 For Me
Now Thsoe 25 People Each Make 200 MINIMUM Posts
With My Name At #4 On The List And Only  5 Replies Each, I Will
Bring In An Additional $125.00! Now Those 125 People Turn Around And
Post The MINIMUM 200 Postings With My Name At #3 On The List And Only
Receive 5 Replies Each, I Will Make An Additional $626.00! Okay, Now
Here Is
The Fun Part Each Of Those 626 People Post  A MINIMUM 200 Letters
With My
Name At #2 And They Each Only Receive 5 Replies That Just Made Me
$3,125.00
Those 3,125 People Deliver This Message To 200 Newsgroups With My
Name At
#1, And If Still Only 5 People Per 200 Newsgroups React, I Will
Receive
$15,625.00. With An Initial Investment Of ONLY $6.00. AMAZING!!! When
Your
Name Is No Longer On The List, You Just Take The Latest Posting In The
Newsgroups, And Send Out Another $6.00 To Names On The List, Putting
Your
Name At #6 Again. And Start Posting Again.

The Thing To Remember Is: Do You Realise That Thousands Of People
All Over The World Are Joining The Internet And Reading  These
Articles
Everyday?!!,
JUST Like You Are Now!!

So, Can You Afford $6.00 And See If It Really Works???
I Think So...People Have Said "What If The Plan Is Played Out And
No One Sends You The Money?"
So What! What Are The Chances Of That Happening  When There Are
Thousands Of
New Honest People  Who Are Joining The Internet Everyday And Are
Willing To
Give It A Try?
Estimates Are At 20,000 To 50,000 New Users Everyday With Thousands
Of Those
Joining The Actual Internet. Remember, Play FAIRLY And HONESTLY And
This
Will Really Work.
You Might Have Been Already Thinking How You  Are Going To Stop
People From Copying This Message With  Their Name At #6 And Not
Sending A Dollar To The First Six On The List. Here's The Deal. The
Six
People Own The Rights To This Service, Now They Aren't The Only Ones
Who Own
These Rights. To Get These Rights, You Have To Purchase Them From The
Six
People On The List.
Why Do You Have To Purchase Them From All 6 You Ask? Thats What Makes
This
Service Work. If You Decide To Break These Rules, That's When It
Becomes
Illegal, And That Is Why You Must Be Fair To Everyone!
This Is Like, So AWESOME!! So TRY It Right NOW! Okay?
Make Huge Bucks In Just A Few Short Weeks!

Regards,










------------------------------


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