Linux-Advocacy Digest #590, Volume #34 Fri, 18 May 01 06:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: To Erik: What is Wordperfect missing? (Karel Jansens)
Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st (Karel Jansens)
Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st (Karel Jansens)
Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS ("Ayende Rahien")
Beos vs Linux (Dan Pidcock)
Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux posts #1 TPC-H result (W2K still better) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (Stephen Cornell)
Re: Rather humorous posting on news.com commentry forum: (Glitch)
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From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:11:28 +0200
"Chris Sherlock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > That depend on how they count those distributions.
> > www.linuxiso.org list 21 distributions.
> > If they count distribution per platform (RH for x86, RH for PPC, RH for
> > Alpha, etc), that pretty much explain the number. :-)
>
> That is a good point, you could count it this way. I think that it is
> more useful to see them as the same distribution just on different
> computers. But I see what you mean.
> Hey, I'm all for that! But I'm not talking about the STL, I'm talking
> about the standard code libraries that Linux uses. Think of them as
> dll's and maybe you will see what I mean :) e.g. glibc
Yes, I understand what you mean.
> > There is a limit to how much you can do with those standard libraries,
> > before you hit performance & usability limits. (Usability means that you
> > just *can't* do some stuff using the standard libraries. Threading, GUI
&
> > networking, to name a few.)
>
> Yeah, point taken. However, as Linux distributions use the same kernel
> and pretty much the same base libraries, this isn't too much of an
> issue.
"Same stuff underneat the meat", now if I could only remember where I heard
it...
> > > > What about the number of IIS holes that have needed to
> > > >be patched - even recently!
> >
> > That is not fair, want to go over the list of Linux's programs that need
> > patching?
>
> You misunderstand me. I didn't mean for that to come out like that...
> hopefully you could see that when I said "Microsoft are fairly fast at
> releasing these [patches]" below. The point I was trying to make is that
> Microsoft seem to think that they are more secure only because they are
> closed source. Clearly this is not the case. I can see how it may have
> seemed a pretty unbalanced comment, and I hope this clarifies this
> point.
Yes, and I agree about this.
The point I'm trying to make (and I've posted a link to an article about it
a short while ago) is that OSS doesn't automatically mean more secure
either.
Here is the article, btw:
http://webdeveloper.earthweb.com/websecu/article/0,,12013_621851,00.html
> > I don't think they said that. They might have *meant* to say that, but
they
> > most certainly didn't say that.
>
> I'm not so sure. I think that they did mean to say this.
They might have meant to say it, but they didn't say it :-D
Pretty strange, I would've thought it would have to be approved by couple of
MS' PR people.
By then, MS' PR isn't as good as it's portraied
http://www.objectwatch.com/issue_31.htm
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Erik: What is Wordperfect missing?
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:22:51 +0000
Larry Rosen wrote:
> Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>~¿~ wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
>
> ...snip....
>
>>> Excel Pivot tables
>>
>>What are Pivot tables?
>
> PivotTables - A pivot table transforms raw data into representative
> information. With the ability to pivot the dimension of your tables, it
> allows you to rearrange the data or view them from different
> perspectives. The drawback of the pivot table is its inability to
> automatically update its data when the source data changes.
>
Ooooh-kayyy. <G>
I still don't get it completely, but that is probably because I prefer
numbers to purdy pictures to view my data. Charts tend to confuse me; I
prefer percentages to pies.
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
===============================================================
Has anybody ever wondered why Microsoft launched Windows 95
with a song that contains the line: "You make a grown man cry"?
Oh, wait...
===============================================================
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:30:27 +0000
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> "Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Not to call you a liar, but I have _never_ met anyone who managed to keep
>> Win 9x running for more than a working week (i.e.: five days) in a normal
>> office or home environment (*). Most people call themselves lucky if they
>> get through the day without a three-finger salute to their grey box.
>
> Most people are always screwing with their systems. Once you have a
> working, stable system, don't fuck with it by installing the latest driver
> or whatever. it'll stay up a lot longer than you think.
>
Given that I am used to uptimes of weeks and months (linux and previously
OS/2), and that I have earned myself a reputation as a "tinkerer" (when
something works, that is the moment to take it apart, is my motto), I have
always been quite surprised how rapidly "static" Windows 9x systems seem to
degrade. I am referring to office PCs, with hardly anything but the
operating system and Microsoft's own Office suite installed on them.
Maybe it is different on this side of the ocean, but Windows 9x just does
not seem to be able to "stay up", let alone "longer than you think".
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
===============================================================
Has anybody ever wondered why Microsoft launched Windows 95
with a song that contains the line: "You make a grown man cry"?
Oh, wait...
===============================================================
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:32:54 +0000
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> "Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I'm kinda in the same boat. I use Win98 currently, and on my home
>> > computer I do have it running pretty stable. I have actually gone
>> > months without rebooting. AT work though, with software my boss makes
>> > me use (like Norton crap) it crashes every other day.
>> >
>>
>> When you write "months without rebooting", does that mean that your
> Windows
>> 98 pc stays powered on continuously, or do you occasionally shut it down
>> voluntarily? And if so, how often do you perform these "maintainance
>> reboots"?
>
> I have a 98SE machine that runs 24/7, and I typically reboot or crash
> about
> once every 3 months. Not a stellar performance by any measure, but
> certainly better than you people seem to suggest. It's used extensively
> by my girlfriend to play games and surf the net, listen to MP3's, etc..
>
Far be it from me to suggest anything, it is just that I do not meet any
"real" (as in: in the flesh) people who can confirm uptimes longer than a
working week.
Only on Usenet am I confronted with these amazing uptime figures...
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
===============================================================
Has anybody ever wondered why Microsoft launched Windows 95
with a song that contains the line: "You make a grown man cry"?
Oh, wait...
===============================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st
Date: 18 May 2001 17:13:34 +0800
>>>>> "Edward" == Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Even with Linux, one of the apps I wanted was Sun's Star Office
>> (so I never needed MS office again) which claims a minimum
>> requirement of a 233mHz processor. Are you able to run it on
>> your machine?
Edward> Yep. It takes a bit of time to load the components, but
Edward> once its loaded, the response it pretty crisp unless
Edward> you're doing a lot else in the background. On another
Edward> note, Mozilla has been improvina a lot recently and the
Edward> latest build I picked up 0.8.1 is reasnable but not great
Edward> on my computer.
I think RAM is the critical factor here. (A >200MHz processor is more
than enough, IMO. Most users simply wasted the computing power on
screen-savers most of the time.) These eye-candy applications eat a
lot of RAM. So, have plentiful RAM and the system should run very
smoothly.
There is a critical amount of RAM below which your system would thrash
(disk LED constantly flashing and everything goes slow). Above this
amount, the system will have sufficient RAM to work smoothly (without
swapping all the time). This critical point depends on your
particular hardware combinations, softwares installed (and configured
to run automatically upon reboot), your usage pattern, etc. Using
"top" is a good way to find out how much RAM you need. The amount of
swap space that is constantly being in use would indicate how much
more RAM would be needed.
Edward> Should work OK. OpenOffice should be rather better, and
Edward> there are other office suites that I expect are
Edward> smaller. BTW, if you want top notch quality wiht minimum
Edward> requirements, you should try to learn LaTeX if you write a
Edward> lot. The output quality is second to none and it will
Edward> happily run on a 386.
Even on a 386 with just 8MB or RAM.
>> And I think the main problem with my burner is it's parralel
>> port. I can only get 1x for burning audio CD's. Is your's
>> parralel, scsi, internal? And do you get 8x on audio CDs or
>> just data CD's?
Edward> The parallel nature of yours might pose a problem, but I
Edward> think Linux can deal with it OK.
I agree. Given that a parallel port has an even lower bandwidth than
IDE and that Linux could handle the speed of IDE, how come Linux
wouldn't cope with its speed? (Unless the Linux driver for the
parallel port CDRW sucks.)
>> I'll tell you what, though. Never have I found people more
>> willing to help a newbie out then in the world of linux. I'm
>> learning a lot.
Edward> I'm glad you've got this impression
People who like to learn would very likely be staying in the Linux
world. With Widows, you can't learn much, and all that you can learn
are just bad practices and habits (such as clicking the icons
representing mail attachments without think what they're and what
that'll do).
--
Lee Sau Dan §õ¦u´°(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
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------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st
Date: 18 May 2001 09:31:34 GMT
Terry Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On Thu, 17 May 2001 16:06:28 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> "Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
:> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
:>> Not to call you a liar, but I have _never_ met anyone who managed to keep
:>> Win 9x running for more than a working week (i.e.: five days) in a normal
:>> office or home environment (*). Most people call themselves lucky if they
:>> get through the day without a three-finger salute to their grey box.
:>
:> Most people are always screwing with their systems. Once you have a
:> working, stable system, don't fuck with it by installing the latest driver
:> or whatever. it'll stay up a lot longer than you think.
:>
: I'd agree with Eric there, however sometimes just adding an app can render
: Win9x unstable. The same can happen to Linux also (memory leaks).
A memory leak in user space shouldn't compromise the stability of
Linux, and won't do so as long as you have ulimits set up.
Most distros don't do this by default, and I've never understood why.
Joe
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:40:05 GMT
On Fri, 18 May 2001 09:28:09 +0100, Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|5 Application
|
| 4 GUI Toolkit/Library
|
| 3 X Window toolkit
|
| 2 X Lib
|
| 1 X Window primitives
|-----------------------------------------network
| 0 X Server
|
|
|Just a pedant point: you missed the XLib layer. Almost everything goes
|through the xlib layer. I have only ever seed one program which makes
|socket calls (layer 1) directly.
I was trying to keep it simple. If pressed, I'll claim that it is included
in the "X Window toolkit" category, but eventually I'll have to admit
that I'm not that big an expert on X and had completely forgotten that
the X Lib was a seperate layer.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st
Date: 18 May 2001 17:35:04 +0800
>>>>> "Sugapablo-russpgh" == Sugapablo-russpgh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>writes:
Sugapablo-russpgh> Also, every time another employee touches my
Sugapablo-russpgh> machine at work, something really bad happens.
Sugapablo-russpgh> At home though, I have more control.
With Linux, you can easily set up a "guest" account for them and let
them mess around this guest account. They won't have enough privilege
to mess up your data (such as your love letters :P) or mess up the
system files (such as /bin/*, /etc/*). When the "guest" account has
accumulated enough rubbish, remove it and re-create it from fresh.
It's so easy.
--
Lee Sau Dan §õ¦u´°(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Analysis of the Linux Report from MS
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:14:03 +0200
"Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9e2p17$2md$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> By then, MS' PR isn't as good as it's portraied
> http://www.objectwatch.com/issue_31.htm
Sign, I really hate to make typos.
Not that the above article isn't interesting, but here is the correct link:
http://www.objectwatch.com/issue_32.htm
Title: CLUSTER MUSTER BIG BOX BUSTER LACKS LUSTER
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Pidcock)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.be.advocacy
Subject: Beos vs Linux
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:50:21 GMT
I've been using these quite a bit recently, partly forced away from
windows after putting win98 and now dial-up networking doesn't work
any more so I can't take the compatible route for web surfing.
I've been using BeOS 5 and SUSE Linux 6.3 on a K6-2@400 with 192Mb
RAM.
BeOS is really responsive, and the user interface is nice and also
consistent. Installing new software is straightforward: just unzip an
archive or use the built-in installer program (valet).
However using it for web surfing can get tricky. A lot of sites work
fine but then you get to one reliant on JavaScript or Flash. It would
be nice if the site designers would do their job properly but this
isn't an ideal world.
So you either wind up with Opera or Bezilla. The first is pretty good
but not as quick as Net+ and it still has problems with some sites.
Bezilla is slow, a memory hog and unstable, so why use BeOS?
So I turned my attention to Linux. SUSE 6.3 is getting on a bit now
(current version 7.1) but that kind of makes it a fairer comparison as
BeOS 5 is about the same vintage - about 6 months older I think.
The worst thing about using Linux after BeOS is it's just so
unresponsive. I launch programs and it goes chuntering away on the
disk for ages. Sounds like thrashing but gpm & xosview tell me that
no swap is being used so that can't be the case. While thinking about
memory there is another problem with Linux: I upgraded from 64MB to
192MB and the tools (free, top) still think I have 64MB. There is a
fix mentioned in SDB to put a mem line in /etc/init.conf (IIRC) but
that hasn't worked.
Anyway, I used kde as my wm to start with and it is OK but the whole
taskbar/launcher arrangement uses up loads of screen space. Making it
autohide helps but it's a pain bouncing up & down then. kde seems to
be quite a memory hog too with all it's components like kfm & kpanel.
I started off using netscape 4.7 for browsing but it is really just a
pile of pants. Uses up loads of memory, takes ages to launch, as soon
as I have used it for about 10 minutes and have over about 6 windows
it grinds to a halt and I have to kill it. At least it doesn't take
the machine down in these situations like win9x.
So I turned to kfm for my web access. This is OK, but has
compatibility problems with sites that insist on using flash. I also
saw instability problems with windows failing to load the correct
page, and loads of memory sucking processes get launched making the
whole machine even more unresponsive.
Next I tried changing window managers to see if the machine would be a
bit quicker and this opens up a whole new can of worms. I don't have
gnome wm, but tried mwm, fvwm, fvwm2, afterstep and icewm. Of all
these I find icewm nicest with the launcher/task bar. This however
brings me to another bugbear with linux: each window manager seems to
have it's own standard for application menus, themes and the like.
It's just such a pain configuring each one to be nice & have all my
useful apps on the menus.
Next thing to try is getting a more up-to-date version of Linux but
now I have to decide what to go for. I would use SUSE but the latest
freely available is 7.0 it seems, and that is some kind of evaluation
CD that you run off CD: not sure if it will be easy to install to HD.
Maybe Mandrake 8.0 would be a good choice? I could just see what's on
the cover discs of the 2 linux magazines and try that but cheapbytes
will be cheaper.
OK enough of my aimless rambling: I better do some work.
Dan
remove .hatespam to reply
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Campaign: Microsoft Free by October 1st
Date: 18 May 2001 17:44:39 +0800
>>>>> "Scott" == Scott L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Scott> I have
Scott> yet to get WINE to run, but the overhead on that will
Scott> preclude running most games.
Try before you make a conclusion. 5 or 6 years ago, I (bravely) tried
to run the DOS version of DOOM2 under DOSEMU. I thought DOSEMU
wouldn't fully support protected mode programs (The DOOM2 core engine
is a DOS extender). I was wrong. I also thought that DOOM2 would be
damn slow, because DOSEMU is an "emulator", which should be slow
because of the overhead of emulation. The facts, however, proved me
wrong. It ran quite smoothly, comparable to running on bare DOS. It
was completely playable and I was very impressed.
I've got similiar experiences when I tried VMWare. Many people as
well as I have been impressed by the speed of running MS Office under
Win98 under VMWare under Linux. We all guessed that it would be slow
(should theoretically be even slower than WINE, because the emulation
is more low-level) because of the emulation layer. But VMWare really
did a great job. The difference is not very noticeable. (Of course,
this is under the assumption of sufficient RAM.)
--
Lee Sau Dan §õ¦u´°(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux posts #1 TPC-H result (W2K still better)
Date: 18 May 2001 17:53:21 +0800
>>>>> "Ayende" == Ayende Rahien <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Ayende> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
Ayende> news:9e0eeo$qc9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Doesn't VB cost money? Also, VB is one language only. Every
>> language has strengths and weaknesses and no one language is
>> best at everything. UNIX bydefault comes with quite a few. A
>> decent modern installation of Linux comes with loads. I can
>> think of many taskls where VB would be totally inferior to AWK
>> and many tasks where the oppersite would be true. For really
>> good scripting a good choice is needed.
Ayende> Windows comes with WSH, which come with VBS & JS support.
Ayende> You can add Perl & Python from activestate.com (free).
Ayende> C#, VB.NET comes with .NET beta, and there are also other
Ayende> languages that you can hook there, I believe.
Does any of WSH, C#, VB.NET, .NET provides support of regular
expressions?
--
Lee Sau Dan §õ¦u´°(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 21:56:51 +1200
> >Why not build more power plants? New Zealand is already building two more
power
> >plants to handle the ever increasing demand. 70-80% of power is from
hydro, and the
> >rest is from Geothermal, Coal, and Gas fired plants. Up at the garbage
dump there
> >is a small power plant running off the methane produced from the rubbish
dump, so,
> >maybe California should setup one of those outside Microsoft to capture
all the crap
> >that they produced.
>
> Well, since you mention it, Bush Jr's plan includes the capitalization
> (or, rather, free public money to the fascist billionaires) for nuclear
> power plants, which is a good thing.
>
Also remembering that he, Dubeya Bush, has quite a strong friendship with
the oil industry.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: Stephen Cornell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: 18 May 2001 11:00:31 +0100
> >
> > > > > > > Edward Rosten wrote:
> > > > > > >> If you have really firm evidence that homosexualtiy is
> > > > > > >> genetic, I
> > > > > > >> suggest you publish.
> > > >
> > > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > > > > > Then you admit that it's a choice.
> > > >
> > > > > Edward Rosten wrote:
> > > > > > Do you think ceberal paulsy a choice? Hint: it isn't genetic.
> > > >
> > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > > So, you admit that it's a result of a defect of some sort.
> > > >
> > > Stephen Cornell wrote:
> > > > For some animals, sex is determined environmentally. If you are a
> > > > crocodile, being male is neither genetic nor a choice - do you
> > > > therefore believe that it is a defect?
> > >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > If the environmental effect causes the crocodile successfully seek out
> > > reproductive opportunities, and take advantage of them, then no, it is
> > > not a defect.
> >
> Stephen Cornell wrote:
> > But that wasn't your argument. First, you argued that homosexuality
> > had to be a choice, if it wasn't genetic; then, you argued that it had
> > to be a result of a defect, if it was neither genetic nor a choice. I
> > was pointing out that your logic is fallacious: an environmentally
> > determined trait is not necessarily a `defect'.
>
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> No. I'm just noting that no matter WHAT excuse homosexuals use,
> it STILL doesn't justify their behavior.
Okay, and I'm noting that you admit that your above argument above is
a non-sequitur.
> No matter what the cause : genetic, environmental, abuse, disease,
> whatever ... it's DEFECT causing DEVIANT BEHAVIOR.
And I also note that you are incapable of producing a coherent
argument as to why it should be considered a `defect'.
--
Stephen Cornell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax +44-1223-336644
University of Cambridge, Zoology Department, Downing Street, CAMBRIDGE CB2 3EJ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 02:38:38 -0400
From: Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rather humorous posting on news.com commentry forum:
> >
> > if it makes you feel superior to know this while others do not, good for
> > you - but don't pretend like you're advancing the cause of Linux while
> > you're at it.
>
> No it's like driving a car or a truck. To *USE* these objects for *WORK* you
> need to have a *BASE* understanding of how to operate them. (Emphasis on
> the *BASIC* ) I can't expect to purchase a truck or car and then ring up and
> Whine because I can't drive one?
>
> NOTE: You don't have to know how to *install* a new engine or *install* a
> new radio or *install* new brakepads etc... etc... But God dang you should
> at least know how to drive the vehicle, you should know what the steering
> wheel does, you should know what the brake pedal does, you should know what
> the tyres are for, you should know how to READ the gauges of the vehicle.
>
> I'm saying that at least learn how to drive your operating system. ( This is
> NOT limited to Linux it includes ***Windows*** users! ) You don't have to be
> a computer science MAJOR! You don't have to know how to cut code, or set up
> network clusters. But for heavens sake even Joe Bloggs the car driver knows
> the basic terminology when the steering is not right, or the engine is
> sluggish or the hand brake is not working, or the vehicle is overheating.
>
> The above applies to Windows users, not just the Linux community. It is
> specifically aimed at *end users* who are Lazy and make NO effort to
> understand the BASICS of their operating system. Sorry there are NO excuses
> for being a Lazy whining peanut.
Amen. I ask people sometimes what kind of computer they have. They
answer with a 'I don't know'. I then ask why they don't know and tell
them why would they buy it w/o knowing the brand. They buy a car and
know the make and model. It's like they don't care what they are
spending their $1500 on.
------------------------------
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You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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