Linux-Advocacy Digest #727, Volume #34 Wed, 23 May 01 11:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Chad Myers")
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop ("Rich Soyack")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (Anonymous)
errunt r kookla kicked out of college for cheating is now a medical expert (Steve
Chaney)
Re: Single sign-on authentication for Novell, Windows and Linux? ("Mark H. Wood")
Re: Linux on the desktop potential, suggestions needed (quux111)
Re: What is the licence aggreement for REDHAD professional server? (.)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (Ian Davey)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop ("Rich Soyack")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("David
Brown")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("David Brown")
Re: evolutionary (oh boy) psychology: the short form (Roberto Alsina)
Re: IBM to let Linux fans use mainframe--for free (Greg Porr)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:46:46 GMT
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > > Not to mention new innovation. Everything that was out there for
> > > > Linux was either a rehashed 30-year old app with a new GUI
> > > > front end, or a cheap knock-off of a current Microsoft app.
> > >
> > > I seem to remeber smug Apple users saying the same thing about a
> > > certain other OS a few years ago... look what has happened since.
> >
> > That was their (rather misguided and uneducated) opinion. Win95
> > was hardly a MacOS knock-off. There were many new features that
> > Apple wouldn't come to know for another 5 years (until MacOS X).
>
> I suspect we'll be saying that about *your* comments eventually.
Well, it's simple fact. The Macvocates have never been known for
sound thought. They are quite wrong about the Win95 looking like the
Mac. About the only thing similar to the Mac in Win95 is the
recycle bin, but similar technologies had existing on the PC for
quite some time, it just wasn't built into the OS.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:48:10 GMT
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > Oh puh-leeze. Perhaps if Windows came with any useful software I
> > > would consider using it; as it comes now it's simply a glorified
> > > typewriter until you spend hours updating and installing by hand.
> >
> > So which is it? If it comes with apps, then MS is an evil monopoly
> > trying to squish out all app vendors and competitors, if they
> > don't then they're just a glorified typewriter.
> >
> > Which is it?
>
> I didn't realize that Microsoft had been sued for including
> development tools, perl, an ssh daemon, low-latency remote access, a
> good shell, wget, a real editor (take your pick), etc. etc.
Well, WindowsNT has always had a good shell (better than Bash in
most cases). The simple fact is, 99% of the users don't use half the
things you mentioned, and Win2K has two forms of low-latency remote
access as well.
Who uses wget besides a bunch of Unix geeks (less than one percent
of one percent I'm sure).
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:50:01 GMT
"Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9ef90p$iti$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:3b0aedf3$0$2601$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9eeno1$q9l$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:3b0aa7f7$0$2604$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:9ee7sc$f9s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3387/1/
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't say I don't agree.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some points:
> > > > > A> The linux desktop company he's talking about is likely Mandrake.
> > > > > B> He agrees with Daniel about users getting computer/OSes/shells
> not
> > > for
> > > > > the sake of the computer/OS/Shell, but for the applications that it
> run.
> > > > > C> He seems to agree with me that you can't offer a slightly-less or
> > > equal
> > > > > product in order to convice people to switch, you need something
> vastly
> > > > > sueprior.
> > > >
> > > > Not to mention new innovation. Everything that was out there for
> > > > Linux was either a rehashed 30-year old app with a new GUI
> > > > front end, or a cheap knock-off of a current Microsoft app.
> > > >
> > > > -c
> > >
> > > Just because you suddenly become *aware* of an application via MS does
> not
> > > mean it did not exist before.
> >
> > You mean an antiquated fraction-of-the-features version which could
> > loosely be called a similar app? I laugh when you guys talk about
> > IE being a knock-off of spyglass. What a joke!
> >
> > -c
> >
> How many *original* ideas has Microsoft given to the computer world?
Quite a few. Many more than you and I could count, I'm sure. Just in IE
alone there are several dozens.
COM was a big contribution. Enterprise-level transaction processing
for a dirt-cheap price (MTS and COM+).
A top-notch unmatched unified development IDE and rapid-development
aids.
A leading Office suite with many more features than any other office
suite out there...
the list goes on.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Rich Soyack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:11:30 GMT
"Ian Davey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <5rOO6.1994$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Rich Soyack"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> And gay means happy. The english language has always been very good at
> >> evolving, and words do not necessary retain the meaning of their strict
> >latin
> >> translations. If they did we'd still be speaking Latin. As the word is
> >used
> >> currently, homophobe refers to someone that hates gays. Common usage
tends
> >to
> >> define the meaning of English words.
> >
> >But is it common usage or is one group trying to make it common usage?
>
> Definately common usage, at least in the UK, I can't really speak for
> elsewhere. In fact you'll probably be hard pressed to find people that
> consider homophobes to be afraid of gays, especially considering all the
> violence perpetrated by homophobes. You could of course argue that their
> hatred of gays comes from a combination of fear and ignorance. Anyway, in
your
> view what is the correct term for hatred of gays if "homophobe" is
incorrect?
> I can't think of any other word that comes anywhere close to having common
> usage.
How about hatred of homosexuals? Homophobe is not common usage in the USA.
Rich Soyack
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:14:36 -0400
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I don't understand why anyone would claim
that Linux on the desktop is dead just
because Eazel imploded. You can't miss
what you never had in the first place.
As far as I'm concerned the existing Ximian
GNOME desktop with window manager and virtual
desktop is just fine for me.
While I believe it's important to have at least
one window manager and virtual desktop manager
to be able to work productively, once you have
one, the value of adding another is at best
a minor incremental improvement.
The loss of Eazel isn't really that big of a
deal.
And the last time I checked, with Windows 98SE
or WinME you don't even get one virtual
desktop manager. So with Ximian GNOME you're
still better off.
Also, with Windows, you can't even realistically
run that many applications without the OS crashing.
With Linux on 4 different virtual desktops,
I can have as many as 20-30 different jobs running
all at the same time. My only real limitation
is memory and CPU power with Linux. With Windows,
the limitation is the software.
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3387/1/
>
> I can't say I don't agree.
>
> Some points:
> A> The linux desktop company he's talking about is likely Mandrake.
> B> He agrees with Daniel about users getting computer/OSes/shells not for
> the sake of the computer/OS/Shell, but for the applications that it run.
> C> He seems to agree with me that you can't offer a slightly-less or equal
> product in order to convice people to switch, you need something vastly
> sueprior.
>
> Comments, anyone?
> OK, well, let us be realistic?
> Flames, anyone?
--------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==-------
Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server
-----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Chaney)
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: errunt r kookla kicked out of college for cheating is now a medical expert
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:42:25 GMT
Errunt R Kookla wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>>
>> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >Gay-male sex leads to AIDS...especially when a condom breaks.
>>
>> No, it doesn't. Sex is how AIDS is transmitted, but sex alone
>> does not lead to AIDS any more than masturbation leads to hairy
>> palms.
>
>Let's see...if you're a man, and you have sex with a female infected
>with AIDS, your chances of contracting AIDS is....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> zero.
LOL holy shit you are a moron.
(Ok sorry for the redundancy there.)
FYI folks this Aaron Kulkis thingy got kicked out of college for cheating.
He was an E-4 for 10 fucking years.
BTW: Ask any infectious disease specialist. Your chances of catching HIV
from an infected woman are actually quite high. Not as high as the reverse.
But no infectious disease specialist would ever advise you do such a thing.
HTH
-- Steve
===============================
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove the "-" to email me)
This site is just TOO COOL for a counter! http://www.self-acceptance.org
"As long as an enemy is judged solely by his appearance, his victory is assured." -
Outer Limits
STOP SMOKING NOW!!! ASK ME HOW!!! http://www.geocities.com/brenduh52/
The alt.bonehead.jim-dutton FAQ @ http://www.best.com/~paladin/jjd-faq.txt
"anybody that takes usenet to seriously deserves to be beaten to death." - Turtoni
"Let 'em eat eep" - Lady Veteran
------------------------------
From: "Mark H. Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.netware.connectivity,comp.os.netware.security
Subject: Re: Single sign-on authentication for Novell, Windows and Linux?
Date: 23 May 2001 14:20:31 GMT
In comp.os.netware.connectivity Dean Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You can link passwords on Linux and NT/Win2K systems together with
> the help of PAM SMB modules. There are also some PAM modules in
> existence for validating logins into Linux through various versions
> of Netware but normally the Netware server has to be operating in a
> bindery mode. I am not sure of too many authentication modules
> which actually work with a NDS tree directly.
What about loading LDAP on a Netware server and then using PAM-LDAP?
Either method reduces the problem to two sources of authentication:
NDS and NTLM. Adding NDS for NT should reduce that to one source:
NDS.
--
Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Make a good day.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (quux111)
Subject: Re: Linux on the desktop potential, suggestions needed
Date: 23 May 2001 14:19:08 GMT
(Jeff Cochran) wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>>> OK, good point - as long as Windows users can slide into a Linux
>>> desktop without getting scared, I could see that it would work. But
>>> all the familiar functions of Windows would have to be there...
>>>
>>
>>I'm uncomfortable with using Windows as the performance-bar that Linux
>>must meet for success. Perhaps it's because I don't find Windows to be
>>all that elegant or intuitive to begin with, but I think it's a lousy
>>target for design decisions. IME users can adapt to most modern GUIs
>>with little mental strain -- there's really not much cosmetic
>>difference anymore between Windows, the Mac, KDE, and GNOME. Sure,
>>there are some dissonances, but they're minor.
>
> You forget that most users have a system at home, running Windows.
> They know Windows, are comfortable with Windows and that home-achieved
> experience is valuable for the company. In addition, you can bet they
> are coming from another company that uses Windows, where they picked
> up many of their skills. If a system can't be really easy to make the
> switch, it can't gain a foothold on the desktop. Period.
>
You're wrong, but I understand where you're coming from: most
businesspeople make the same mistaken assumption. They assume that their
users are dull, lazy, and unwilling to change unless forced to do so.
While this is true of a small minority of people, I have found most people
to be very open and willing to change if the reasons are explained to them.
You've probably seen the recent AOL commercials on TV where the aggravating
theme-song goes "easy, easy, easy" as if human beings were brain-damaged
halfwits who can't figure out what a GUI pushbutton does.
If you give people half a chance, they'll surprise you. But if you assume
that they're stupid and unwilling to learn, that's how they'll act.
>
> Macs are ostensibly easier to use. I have several here that people
> refuse to use, they just can't get the difference between them and
> their home system. I have a designer who won't touch a PC because she
> knows her Mac so intimately. Neither of those groups would switch to
> Linux at this point in time, and they'd rebel if I put Linux on their
> desktop.
>
> Jeff
Gurus, as opposed to general users, have strong perferences built around
years of experience, muscle-memory, and personal taste. Take myself: I am
an EMACS kind of guy, and always have been; I absolutely loathe vi.
However, a good friend of mine adores vi and refuses to touch EMACS. Now
objectively the editors do the same thing, but our preferences and
experiences color our perception of them. However, when I want to view a
graphic image, any old image-viewer will do. I am not an image guru, so I
don't really give a squat what I'm using as long as it does the job.
The general office computer user is not, as a rule, a guru. They tend to
use one or two apps all day long -- usually word-processors and
spreadsheets (and increasingly web-browsers). To claim that Windows
performs these functions so much easier or more intutively than anything
else is just false: load up StarOffice and the average user would be happy
as a clam after a couple of days adjustment. I know because I migrated
fifty users to Applix Office from Microsoft Office not long ago. The first
couple of days were filled with complaints and questions, but by the end of
the week everything was humming along smoothly again. The people adapted
and made use of what they had. When the rationale for the move was
explained to them, and when we involved them in their own retraining, their
buy-in helped the move to succeed.
You sound like you're arguing *for* keeping windows, which makes me wonder
how sincere you are about wanting to switch. If you're looking for a
painless, no-hassle switch, then forget about it! But if you're serious
about wanting to lift the Microsoft millstone from around your neck, you
can, and with little to no loss of functionality.
Regards,
quux111
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: What is the licence aggreement for REDHAD professional server?
Date: 23 May 2001 14:56:17 GMT
KerryHB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am thinking of using many cheap Intel PC as SERVERS.
> Can I buy one copy Redhat Professional Server and install it on 50 PCs?
Why would you *buy* it?
=====.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Davey)
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:57:39 GMT
In article <myPO6.2085$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Rich Soyack"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Definately common usage, at least in the UK, I can't really speak for
>> elsewhere. In fact you'll probably be hard pressed to find people that
>> consider homophobes to be afraid of gays, especially considering all the
>> violence perpetrated by homophobes. You could of course argue that their
>> hatred of gays comes from a combination of fear and ignorance. Anyway, in
>your
>> view what is the correct term for hatred of gays if "homophobe" is
>incorrect?
>> I can't think of any other word that comes anywhere close to having common
>> usage.
>
>How about hatred of homosexuals?
That's a perfect example of why homophobe is used to describe someone who
hates homosexuals. There's no other word for it.
> Homophobe is not common usage in the USA.
I'm not sure I believe that, I've certainly seen plenty of Americans use it.
Though perhaps it's nervousness about using the "H" word amongst certain
circles, unless ranting about those who are "goin' to heeelll".
ian.
\ /
(@_@) http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/ (dark literature)
/(&)\ http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/libertycaptions/ (art)
| |
------------------------------
From: "Rich Soyack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:01:06 GMT
"Ian Davey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <myPO6.2085$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Rich Soyack"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Definately common usage, at least in the UK, I can't really speak for
> >> elsewhere. In fact you'll probably be hard pressed to find people that
> >> consider homophobes to be afraid of gays, especially considering all
the
> >> violence perpetrated by homophobes. You could of course argue that
their
> >> hatred of gays comes from a combination of fear and ignorance. Anyway,
in
> >your
> >> view what is the correct term for hatred of gays if "homophobe" is
> >incorrect?
> >> I can't think of any other word that comes anywhere close to having
common
> >> usage.
> >
> >How about hatred of homosexuals?
>
> That's a perfect example of why homophobe is used to describe someone who
> hates homosexuals. There's no other word for it.
What's wrong with that phrase?
>
> > Homophobe is not common usage in the USA.
>
> I'm not sure I believe that,
As I don't believe that homophobe is in common usage in the UK.
> I've certainly seen plenty of Americans use it.
> Though perhaps it's nervousness about using the "H" word amongst certain
> circles, unless ranting about those who are "goin' to heeelll".
Those who use the word "homophobe" here over use it. It is coming to mean,
the act of disagreeing with a political stand taken by homosexuals.
Rich Soyack
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:53:38 +0200
Chad Myers wrote in message
<_7PO6.25055$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:9efs03$9ar$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Does XP allow you to setup a MS "Intellimouse" during installation? The
>> last windows installation I did (Win98SE) didn't know of their
existance -
>> you needed an extra driver download or disk to set up an MS mouse !
Linux
>> Mandrake, on the other hand, has supported it for many years.
>
>Um, Win98 supports the intellimouse. There are updated drivers which you
>can get from Microsoft.com, but last time I used Win98 it found my
>intellimouse just fine.
>
Yes, Win98SE found the mouse fine, but there was no way to identify it as a
wheelie mouse and use the wheel or the middle button - I needed an extra
driver to do that. I had it on a disk, or could have got it from
microsoft.com, but the point is Win98SE did not come with a driver for
something as simple as a mouse, marketed by MS itself, and several years old
by the time 98SE came out. And it needed a reboot after installing the
drivers. Not impressive. I was just curious if XP has begun to catch up on
Mandrake regarding its bundled drivers and hardware detection and setup.
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:58:45 +0200
T. Max Devlin wrote in message ...
>>
>>In vacuum, all frequencies of EM radiation travel at c.
>
>So we've heard. I'm beginning to suspect this is an artifact of the
>standard curriculum in computer science and engineering programs.
>
You'll find it is an artifact of most science cirriculums - they might not
always tell the truth, and tend to simplify things, but it is seldom they
teach falsehoods in order to complicate matters. Maybe the American
education system has a different attitude, but in European schools, they try
to be accurate within the limits of the complexity level of the course.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
Crossposted-To: soc.singles,soc.men,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: evolutionary (oh boy) psychology: the short form
Date: 23 May 2001 15:07:25 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 23 May 2001 03:15:52 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 22 May 2001 18:13:15 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Krow wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> > "You've got MALE.. sex organs!" wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Get with it. You can't be a good little right wing bigot if you
>> >> > > can't read the program, Aaron.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> > Did it ever occur to you that I really don't give a fuck about gays...
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> For someone who doesn't give a fuck about gays you spend an inordinate time
>> >> on the internet discussing them.
>> >
>> >Those who insist on parading around their deviancy will be justly persecuted for
>it.
>>
>> I suppose that's why you need guns.
>
>Self-defence is a basic human right.
So, persecution of deviants is self defense. Amazing feat of
doublespeak.
>> All that angry crowd persecuting you.
>
>Those who are against private ownership of guns are tacitly in favor
>of the world being ruled by large men with clubs and swords.
Instead of crazy guys with guns? Doesnt seem too much of
a difference.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: IBM to let Linux fans use mainframe--for free
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg Porr)
Date: 23 May 2001 11:08:32 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>I found this info at:
>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010522/tc/ibm_to_let_linux_fans_use_mainframe--for_free_1.html
>
>Anyone knows how to get this access?
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/linux/lcds
------------------------------
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