Linux-Advocacy Digest #803, Volume #34 Sun, 27 May 01 10:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Windows beats Linux anyday!!! ("Richard Fisher")
Re: RIP the Linux desktop ("Richard Fisher")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the (Chris
Ahlstrom)
Re: No More Linux! ("Richard J. Donovan")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Opera (Bob Hauck)
Re: Opera (Bob Hauck)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Time to bitc__ again (Perry Pip)
Re: ease and convenience (Perry Pip)
Re: ease and convenience (Perry Pip)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows beats Linux anyday!!!
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:55:27 +0100
Ummm...why the racism?
Is that the limit of your intellect?
Backward? I think not.
does not know what toothpaste is? Where the hell did you get that idea from?
I dispair of some people...
I could write a load of american-bashing rubbish here, but I'm not going to.
I'm better than that.
=====BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK=====
Version: 3.12
GCS d-(---) s: a--->-- C++(+++) UL+ L++
P+ E- W+++ N++ o? k? w M- V? PS++(+++)
PE Y+ PGP- t+ 5++ X- R+>+++ tv b++
DI(+) D- G e>++ h-- r++ y+
======END GEEK CODE BLOCK======
"Pennywise" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I would expect this from a backwoods Brit who does not know what
> toothpaste is. Take that the whole lot of you idiots in the UK.
>
> In article <OtrO6.8336$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ben Millar"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
------------------------------
From: "Richard Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RIP the Linux desktop
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:00:34 +0100
"Pennywise" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Another brown toothed brit putting in his schilling's worth of a shoddy
> opinion.
OK,
1. Why do you have the impression that british people have poor dental
hygeine?
2. We haven't used shillings in years.
3. It's spent Shilling, not Schilling. I beleive Schilling is the Austrian
currency.
> Keep those thought in your >overtaxed heads.
1. Those thought? You seem to have your plurality mixed up.
2. Overtaxed? Yes, we pay a lot of tax compared to americans, but then
again, we have free health care and a much lower crime rate.
If you disagree with someone's opinion, by all means say so, but there's no
need to resort to racism. As soon as you do that, you've lost the argument.
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete
> Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3387/1/
> >
> > What's this! What's this!
> >
> > "OK, it's official: Linux on the desktop is dead."
> >
> > But it never even started! Giving up before even trying!
> >
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:23:15 GMT
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> On Sun, 27 May 2001 02:34:55 +0100,
> drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 May 2001 21:53:02 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > (Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> >>> flatfish+++
> >>> "Why do they call it a flatfish?"
> >
> >>Because it flounders.
> >>
> >>(I said that just for the halibut.)
> >
> > Stop it, you're giving me a haddock.
>
> Spot the red herring ?
That was my porpoise for saying that in the
foist place. I know, I'm just being shellfish.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:27:58 GMT
Donn Miller wrote:
>
> drsquare wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 26 May 2001 18:09:33 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > ("Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> > >"Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >> Really? What free ssh for Windows gives me a sshd that runs on Windows
> > >> that handles tunneling and port redirection?
> >
> > >OpenSSH + Cygwin, according to OpenSSH.com.
Does Cygwin provide sshd? I'm going to have to check about
that! I use ssh in the Cygwin shell, and it works nicely, but
it'd be cool to have a server, too (although my workplace's
firewall would prevent me from accessing my work machine from
@Home.
> > Cygwin? Oh come off it.
>
> Cygwin is pretty awesome stuff, man. Imagine having the capability of
> running GNU software on Windows. Also, it's nice if you're primary
> platform is Linux or FreeBSD, for example, because you deal exclusively
> with gcc, and you can have gcc on Windows.
I quite agree. It's nice to be able to write and test the same code
on two environments.
Chris
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From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:30:42 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > > > Can I use Windows XP as a software development platform with the
> software
> > > > that it comes with, without the need to purchase additional software
> for
> > > > lots of money?
> > >
> > > Of course.
> >
> > What software would that be?
>
> Take you pick.
> You've C,C++, Java, vbs, javascript, html, perl, python, etc.
Oh, I see, you're talking about Free Software for many of these
languages. Cool. The world owes Richard Stallman and his
colleagues quite a debt.
Chris
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------------------------------
From: "Richard J. Donovan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: No More Linux!
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:37:28 GMT
Dave Martel wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 10 May 2001 02:56:40 +0700, "Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>I decided to become a FreeBSD snob instead. <g>
> >
> >
> > Talk to me I'm listening :)
> >
> > What will FreeBSD do for me (as a desktop non programmer user) that
> > Linux can't?
>
> It has a neater logo.
The children vastly prefer Tux, especially the cuddly little one who
comes with that certain Corel distro.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:38:27 GMT
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> In article <lKKP6.4035$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> >No, I was responding to Matthew Gardeners claim that if MS had got it right
> >the first time, there would have been no need for Windows 2000. That is the
> >point, stop trying to pretend otherwise.
> >
>
> Well, you'd have to be an idiot to buy W2k.
>
> You'd have to be an even bigger imbecile to buy XP.
Although I'm not fond of Microsoft products, and they irritate me
quite often with how they sort-of work, I have found Win 2K to
be relatively pleasant, after a nice machine upgrade, and, of course,
shelling out for the cost of the upgrade from NT (which means, by
the way, that I have to first install NT on a virgin machine, before
I can install Win 2K).
Even NT is useful, especially with its smaller footprint. It still
shares space with Linux on my laptop.
I've installed Cygwin on all my Win machines, and it makes work a lot
less painful, and less expensive.
As for XP, well, I've paid my last penny for Microsoft products
for my personal use. If we ever use it at work (doubtful), they
can provide me an site-licensed copy. I'm using Free Software as
much as I can, it's just more portable and modular by far than
Windows tools.
Chris
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From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 16:37:06 +0200
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9ep88o$bj1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, don'[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> > The next one /is/ .NET, but C++ is (the only one) still capable of going
to
> > native code directly, and not map to IL first.
>
> C#, the one that is designed by the guy who helped creat Delphi, is not?
> That's the one that interests me... along with it's class library, which
> I haven't seen yet.
C# was designed by the same guy that did Object Pascal & Delphi, yes.
It's class library is .NET class library.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Opera
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:43:56 GMT
On Sun, 27 May 2001 02:34:57 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What adverts? My version doesn't have any adverts? Is that just the
> linux version?
The free version has ads in the upper-right corner of the toolbar.
They go away if you pay $39 to register it. The Linux and Windows
versions behave the same in this respect.
Upgrades are free, so if you registered a previous version and upgrade,
it will still be registered and you won't see the ads.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Opera
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:43:58 GMT
On Sun, 27 May 2001 02:57:16 GMT, flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I liked Opera when it fit on one floppy disk, now it's just another
> bloated browser and to pay for it?
Yeah, what a bloat-monster. 2.5 MB for the Windows version.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:45:19 GMT
Daniel Johnson wrote:
>
> > It is frustrating to have to wait for minutes a few times
> > an hour while feverishly attempting to complete a large
> > document. Why does Word periodically take up 100% of the
> > CPU time???
>
> It's probably doing that background spellcheck thing
> that it does. Or the background repagination thing. Or
> something like that.
I have turn both those things off. They are intrusive
and unnecessary. The delays still persist.
> Remember, taking up 100% occasionally doesn't mean
> much- it means that Word wants to compute something
> and nobody else wants to compute anything at that
> particular same time. Any OS with any sense will
> give Word all of the CPU in those circumstances.
On rare occasion, this event will slow down the
rest of Windows. Much more importantly, however,
I have to wait 30 seconds, holding my next great
thought and the brilliant wording I just conceived,
while the hour glass sits over my Word document.
Not a big deal, but very exasperating to me.
It's these little things that make me appreciate Linux.
Coming back to work and using Windows is like biking
over asphalt and then hitting a stretch of beach.
Chris
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From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 13:48:06 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:KvVP6.48514$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Word is just a word processor; Office (especially
> > the more expensive distributions) has a lot more to
> > offer than *just* Word.
> >
> > Word is fine, if what you want is a traditional
> > word processor. And some people want that.
> > Not everyone is writing War and Peace. :D
>
> Um, I used Word to write stuff that big.
> I'm talking hundred of pages here.
> The killer here is the spell checker, took me *days* to finish that.
One of our documents is 500 pages with many tables and embedded
figures. It is painful to edit. Turning off all the background
stuff, as well as change-tracking, is a necessity in order to
be able to edit this document.
Word 2000 -- a big steaming pile of code.
Chris
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.mandrake,linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Time to bitc__ again
Date: 27 May 2001 13:54:45 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 25 May 2001 03:54:40 +0000,
Richard Thrippleton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Now, I'm not really one for distro
> advocacy, but just this once I'll say you should use Debian. A non-profit
> organisation, their distro might be slightly behind the times, but they do
> that to make sure everything's stable.
And part of how they achieve that stability is with a package manager
that keeps everything tightly integrated and working together, so that
even a novice can maintain a debian system (once it's properly
installed) with little effort. If you want to work outside the bounds
of the package manager however, it's up to you to know what you are
doing, and your fault when you fsck it up.
>Though IMHO their package manager is
> terrible; learned this after manually installing XFree86 4.03 and dselect
> went and hosed it down, next X program I installed.
So whose fault is that?? How is the package manager supposed to know
what you are manually installing on the system or what you are
overwriting it's files with?? If you wanted to manually install XFree
all you had to do was install it under an alternate directory. For
example in my system I have a XFree86 DRI CVS build installed under
/usr/X11R6-DRI/. The debian package manager never touches it there and
it works great.
Perry
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Subject: Re: ease and convenience
Date: 27 May 2001 13:56:58 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 26 May 2001 13:53:23 GMT,
Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2001 05:56:46 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] flung this gem:
>
> Linux:
> 1. Shutdown
> 2. Open case and install card. Plug in the cat5 cable.
> 3. Reboot
Ok. Now if you used kudzu, and had a network card with open source
drivers supported by the kernel, the card would have been autodetected
and you would have had to enter your IP or chosed DHCP and been done
with it.
> 4. Log into Linux as root
OK.
> 5. cd /
> 6. mkdir fa311
The above two steps are not needed at all. See below.
> 7. Mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
On most distributions:
mount /mnt/floppy
> 8. cp /mnt/floppy/fa311.o /fa311/fa311.o (/mnt/floppy/ "path where
> drivers are on the floppy"
> 9. cd /fa311
The above two steps are not also not needed. See below.
> 10. install -m 644 fa311.o /lib/modules/2.2.12-20/net/
Why not just:
install /mnt/floppy/fa311.o /lib/modules/2.2.12-20/net/
Eliminating steps 5,6,8 and 9 above.
You are using a vendor provided binary only driver. If you were using
an open source driver included with the kernel dist all steps 5 thru 10
above would not be needed.
> 11. Start linuxconf
> 12. ->Client Task
> 13. ->Basic Host Information
> 14. ->Enable the card
Ok.
> 15. ->Check DHCP if needed
> 16. ->Add IP address and subnet if needed
The above two are one step. You have the same under Windows.
> 17. ->Net Device = eth0
> 18. ->Kernel = fa311
> 19. ->Accept changes
You have the same under Windows too...it's called 'bindings'.
> 20. ->Activate changes and allow the OS to remount the floppy drive
> 21. ->If window is still there then hit Quit
'Activate changes' in linuxconf comes up automatically when you hit
Quit. The above two are one step.
> 22. sh /etc/rc.d/init.d/network stop
> 23. insmod fa311.o -f
> 24. sh /etc/rc.d/init.d/network start
No need to do these, they are done by Linuxconf when you 'Activate changes'.
So as a minimum, you could have eliminated steps 5,6,8,9,15,20,22,23
and 24 above. An open source driver would have eliminated 7 and 10 as
well. Also, if you also used kudzu, all the card would have been
autodeteced, effectively eliminating 11,12,13,14,17,18 and 19
also. Thus leaving behind steps 1,2,3 and 16, which is just 4 of your
original 24 steps.
> 25. Card is basically installed, but eth0 takes 5 or more minutes to
> initialize on every reboot.
You're using a closed source driver.
> I could have gone overboard and talked about how a novice computer
> user would have NEVER gotten this card to work under Linux.
And I can go overboard and tell you you're a novice yourself, which is
why you laboured thru 24 steps when only 4 were needed.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Subject: Re: ease and convenience
Date: 27 May 2001 13:58:50 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 26 May 2001 17:40:29 +0800,
Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:yAHP6.22323$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Not sure why you chose to do it the hard way...
Because he wants to have a *choice* as to what newsreader to use.
>
> Windows:
You're leaving a few things out about Windows Update, aren't you?? For
example:
>
> 1) Start->Windows Update
1a) answer 'ok' to the message that says you can't download and
install SP2, security updates, or any other package simultaneously
while downloading and installing IE. IOW, thru Windows Update you must
install numerous packages separately and reboot each time. (In
contrast, I run apt-get once with no reboots)
> 2) Download your browser of choice IE 5.5 or 6.
2a) click 'ok' repeatedly to numerous stupid questions, preventing you
from going off and doing other things at the time thus making you a
prisoner to the whole process.
2b) reboot... once for each update you install.
> 3) Start IE->Tools->Read News
4) go back to step one and repeat the process for each additional
Windows Update you want to install.
> You can pretend that it is hard under Windows, but average users will find
> it a lot easier than Linux.
>
Bullshit, average users ask me for help with the stupidest things all
the time. Few could use Windows at all without the help of 1) OEM
preinstalls and 2) technical people to ask for help with problems.
------------------------------
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