Linux-Advocacy Digest #916, Volume #34 Sat, 2 Jun 01 18:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: ease and convenience (*long* and possibly boring;-) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Rick)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (GreyCloud)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the (GreyCloud)
Re: ease and convenience (*long* and possibly boring;-) (GreyCloud)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: What does XP stands for ??? (cash)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!! (Philip Neves)
Re: Argh - Ballmer (Ray Chason)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ease and convenience (*long* and possibly boring;-)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 23:41:02 +0200
"Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9fagp6$6t2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > The jury is still out here whether XP will really be the continuation in
> > our household or not. It all hangs on any silly licensing agreements
> > that may require an annual license fee. If they want a fee we're outta
> > MS camp.
>
> Eventually, most software will be written for XP... and MS will be smart
> enough to add new APIs to XP so that previous versions of Windows can't
run
> the new software. This is what they must do to get revenue.
Actually, as far as I understand it, most of the new stuff in XP is just a
layer on the existing API.
Win2K can do most to all of what XP does.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 23:46:07 +0200
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > > > Yes, I can. I can make Windows look like anything that I want. And
every
> > > > application that uses the standard widget set will comply to the new
> > look.
> > > > On Linux? You may be able to switch windows managers, but the
> > applications
> > > > will not comply with the new look.
> > >
> > > That is not true in regards to the widget set. I ported the source of
> > > xgdb from linux (KDE) to Solaris 8 (Motif) and just compiled the
> > > source. When I ran xgdb it was not using the KDE widget set but Motif
> > > widget set. Everything ran as it should.
> >
> > When you are talking about ported, what are you talking about?
>
> In my means, just grabbing or downloading source from the web and just
> compiling the source code.
In this case, I would agree with daniel, it's likely that xgdb has plenty of
#ifdef in it, so it change it code depending on where it is.
------------------------------
From: Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 17:03:09 -0400
Daniel Johnson wrote:
>
> "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Daniel Johnson wrote:
> [snip]
> > > > YOU said he had a problem with business. Now you are changing you
> > > > stance. Pick a place and stay there.
> > >
> > > A problem with "the business"; the business of
> > > selling licenses for the use of software, in particular.
> >
> > If stallman has no problem with selling software, how can he have a
> > proplem with the business of selling software, since selling software is
> > business?
>
> He's fine with selling disks. It's the licensing
> he seems to get hung up on.
>
He's not hung up on licensing. He fully supports the gPL, and tolerates
other Open Source licenses. i see you are trying to sqirm away again.
> [snip]
> > > I said crib the license agreement, not crib
> > > the code.
> >
> > Yeah. right. Im sure you were talking about stealing the license as
> > opposed to stealing the code. How do you steal the license? And yes, I
> > just re-read you exact words. It doesnt track with the further
> > conversation.
>
> Well, I noticed, but I figure that was just
> because you hadn't read what I had written.
>
> I can't be held responsble for that.
Squirm, squirm, squirm... as usual.
>
> [snip]
> > > But we don't have the federal government
> > > cautioning US business to avoid proprietary
> > > software.
> >
> > Its getting close. The Fed is looking more and more into Free and/or
> > Open Software.
>
> I think it would take a larger bribe that
> any OSS organzation can afford to manage
> that. :D
>
I see, Open Source people will bribe the govt, Gates, et al wont stoop
to blackmail. I see.
> [snip]
> > > If they wanted to settle for a weaker product
> > > just because it is European, they could
> > > do that without slamming the many proprietary
> > > European software firms.
> >
> > Are you dissing Mandrake, SuSU or something else?
>
> No. I'm saying tha there are other ways
> to be protectionist that make more sense.
>
No one said anything about protectionism. Red Hat and may derivatives -
US. Mandrake - French (IIRC), SuSE - German (IIRC) all open source, so
all are OK.
> "Proprietary" and "American" just aren't
> synonymous at all.
>
I never said they were. You are suggesting I said that. That is
dishonest.
> [snip]
> > > It doesn't matter what's missing.
> >
> > So, you CANT answer the question. You dont know whats missing, or if it
> > really matters. You yourself have stated that software is often shipped
> > without certain features. How is that unfinished, except that Open/Free
> > developers may be more honest about it?
>
> You just don't care to understand software
> development.
>
You jsut dont care to answer a simple damn question. Maybe you cant and
wont admit it.
> [snip]
> > > At least, sometimes they are. MS Office is stabler
> > > than StarOffice. So it happened at least once that
> > > MS was better at it.
> >
> > 1. - the correct usage should more stable.
>
> Doesn't phase me a bit. :D
>
Ignoarance is bliss. You are full off.... bliss.
> > 2. - How can SO on *nix be less stable than Office?
>
> It's just a matter of not spending the effort
> on QA. :D
>
1. How can you judge SO's stability on *nix, when you didnt use it on
*nix?
2. Are you again trying to say that m$ software does more testing than
open software gets? Should I start laughing now?
> [snip]
> > > .. but what I'm trying to tell you is that their
> > > choice is usually determined by the apps they
> > > want to run.
> > >
> > > This applies to KDE vs GNOME as much
> > > as Windows vs Linux.
> >
> > What? what choice of a window manager and/or windowing envirnment do you
> > have on window$?
>
> Developers can chose to write for X-Windows
> if they like; X-Servers exist for Windows.
>
> They don't because there's no advantage to using
> X-Windows; it's not a very strong technology
> next to GDI.
>
Um, if developers dont write for X-Windows, why am i writning this on
Metscape/Linux? why are there so many apps for X-windows? Why do you
insist that winod$ is the cat's ass and everythig else sucks, when you
MUST know better?
> If you are using USER/GDI, you don't have
> a "Window Manager" in the way X-Windows
> does- that's really quite peculiar to X.
>
> However, users can buy alternative widget
> sets that change the way the software looks-
> including how the window frames look.
>
Really? I dont have to buy anything. I dont even have to change window
managers to completely change the way my windows look.
> In this way they can have *both* a consistant
> user interface *and* their choice of widgets,
> if they like that sort of thing.
>
So can I. Remember - YOU said skins-themes=widgets.
> [snip]
> > > Yes, I am sure.
> >
> > I think you think you are, but you arent, really.
>
> I'm sure I'm sure. :D
>
> [snip]
> > > I don't mean stable. I mean that its existance
> > > may be relied upon; even if a Windows user
> > > chooses StarOffice, Windows Explorer
> > > is still available for other apps.
> >
> > I dont know of a distro that doesnt include mc. GNOME always includes
> > gmc (for now) and KDE always includes Knoquorer. If a user chooses SO,
> > the others are there.
>
> And you'd better integrate with the lot,
> 'cuz you have no way to know what your
> user will be using.
>
You still dont get it do you... GNOME developers develope for GNOME, KDE
for KDE, other for both, others for neither. GNOME has a pretty
consistan interface, so does KDE, and you can chage the look/feel
easily. You cannot seem to get out you little bitty window$ world a see
that there are other things out there.
> [snip]
> > > perhaps it is more flawed, since it has no OLE on
> > > Unix.
> >
> > But you said bonobo was only a chromosome in difference... then it MUST
> > be at least as good as OLE, maybe better... Oh, I see... its not
> > micro$oft, so it just cant be better.
>
> Exactly. :D
>
Thought so.
> Though if I had to point out specific issues,
> I could I suppose mention that Bonobo's
> notion of a moniker is a little limited. OLE's
> is more futureproof, since it does not specify
> that the stored representation of a moniker
> is a path.
>
Nope.. you said they were almost exactly the same and equal ...
> Also, Bonobo monikers do not seem to
> have bind contexts. This would seem to
> imply performance problems. Also without
> one, it's hard to see how they are going
> to manage asynchronous binding.
>
Nope.. you said they were almost exactly the same and equal ...
> Still, the big problem you get with something
> like Bonobo is that it's strictly playing
> catch-up. It's not better than Windows'
> OLE because it isn't *trying* to be better-
> it's trying to catch up.
>
Nope.. you said they were almost exactly the same and equal ...
> It is hard to see how you are going to
> attract a lot of developers to GNOME
> like that.
>
You mean more than all those developers they already have?
> [snip]
> > > > We're not discussing Apple. Apple never came into this.
> > >
> > > Well, I'm just saying that I suspect a case
> > > *could* be made for infringement of something,
> > > given sufficiently energetic lawyers.
> >
> > We're not discussing Apple. Apple never came into this. You are avoiding
> > questions again.
>
> I don't know why you are so alergic to Apple,
> but seeing as I rephrased my point so that it
> had no reference to Apple, I'd think you
> could stop going on about them.
>
> [snip]
> > > You did ask about that.
> > >
> >
> > I asked a question in reference to m$. You didnt answer, again.
>
> You really ought to read what I write
> occasionally. I did answer it, and I even
> did so without any reference to Apple
> at all, on my second try.
>
> You need a new excuse not to pay
> any attention.
>
You are boring and ignorant. Taht will do.
> [snip]
> > > I do say it is that close. Get used to it. :D
> >
> > If it is so close, as you say... wouldnt that imply some sort of patent
> > or copyright infrinement?
>
> Maybe. Consider that MS settled with Digitial
> over the similarities between NT and VMS.
>
> It's like that.
>
The why isnt there some sort of suit? Um, like that?
--
Rick
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 14:04:14 -0700
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Yes, I can. I can make Windows look like anything that I want. And
> every
> > > > > application that uses the standard widget set will comply to the new
> > > look.
> > > > > On Linux? You may be able to switch windows managers, but the
> > > applications
> > > > > will not comply with the new look.
> > > >
> > > > That is not true in regards to the widget set. I ported the source of
> > > > xgdb from linux (KDE) to Solaris 8 (Motif) and just compiled the
> > > > source. When I ran xgdb it was not using the KDE widget set but Motif
> > > > widget set. Everything ran as it should.
> > >
> > > When you are talking about ported, what are you talking about?
> >
> > In my means, just grabbing or downloading source from the web and just
> > compiling the source code.
>
> In this case, I would agree with daniel, it's likely that xgdb has plenty of
> #ifdef in it, so it change it code depending on where it is.
I think it has to do more with the layers of the X environment. Xlib is
pretty raw stuff and there are other top layers. I think that when it
compiles if you use the defaults the appropriate widget set is used. I
had Caldera installed at one time and compiled an old Motif program and
it turned out looking like the KDE theme. I'm pretty sure that the
theme can be changed, but haven't tried that. I've compiled one example
in the back of O'reilleys book under several different WMs and it stayed
with the respective WM. There were no ifdefs in that code.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 14:06:42 -0700
drsquare wrote:
>
> On Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:46:13 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >drsquare wrote:
>
> >> >The best case for the one-button mouse I've found to date is that it
> >> >reduces the cause of carpal tunnel syndrome... which my wife got from
> >> >using MS mouse. Try this little experiment... flex your index finger
> >> >hard and fell the inner pressures on your hand by griping your wrist
> >> >with the other hand. Now just move all four fingers in a primate like
> >> >mode and feel the difference. I think we will be moving over to the Mac
> >> >only because of this.
> >>
> >> What the HELL are you talking about?
>
> >Carpal Tunnel syndrome.... haven't you ever heard of it?? She's been
>
> No actually, I haven't.
Ever since MS windows and two button mice have been out I've noticed a
big increase in this problem... actually its been in the press a lot and
a lot of lawsuits for disability have been filed over carpal tunnel
syndrome.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ease and convenience (*long* and possibly boring;-)
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 14:13:05 -0700
Todd wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Todd wrote:
> > > Well, 9x seems to crash more than its fair share then... I've been
> spoiled
> > > by W2k. I think XP will be great for consumers... they are going to
> wonder
> > > why they don't have to reboot nearly as often.
> > >
> >
> > Nearly as often?? I'd rather not reboot at all.
>
> Obviously.
>
> But all OSes crash... and yes, even Linux does.
That is true if you count a crash on the linux o/s that happens about
once a month or less. Under Win98 its about two or three times a day...
I blame this mostly on old VIA chipset in the HP. My IBM only does this
about twice a week or every other week. Solaris I haven't seen crash
yet in a half year. Only that Netscape on Solaris will just magically
disappear. (The o/s killed the errant app in the log file)
>
> > The jury is still out here whether XP will really be the continuation in
> > our household or not. It all hangs on any silly licensing agreements
> > that may require an annual license fee. If they want a fee we're outta
> > MS camp.
>
> Eventually, most software will be written for XP... and MS will be smart
> enough to add new APIs to XP so that previous versions of Windows can't run
> the new software. This is what they must do to get revenue.
>
> -Todd
Well then I'm not buying XP then. For my wife, I'm looking into porting
all her software or replacement to the new Mac OS X on a cube. Her
printer and scanner came with mac software but I have a few questions
there as well for OS X. Later I'll be moving away from intel to Sun
sparc.
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:16:42 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Daniel Johnson wrote:
> > I think it would take a larger bribe that
> > any OSS organzation can afford to manage
> > that. :D
>
> I see, Open Source people will bribe the govt, Gates, et al wont stoop
> to blackmail. I see.
Well, it's more that Gates et al is too *uncreative*
to do so. They'll do it when they see somebody
else doing it. :D
[snip]
> > No. I'm saying tha there are other ways
> > to be protectionist that make more sense.
>
> No one said anything about protectionism.
What other reason would you suggest for
this kind of thing?
> Red Hat and may derivatives -
> US. Mandrake - French (IIRC), SuSE - German (IIRC) all open source, so
> all are OK.
Sure. But apparently SAP (German) is not okay.
[snip]
> > You just don't care to understand software
> > development.
>
> You jsut dont care to answer a simple damn question. Maybe you cant and
> wont admit it.
I am reluctant to give you the wrong answer
just because you don't like the right one.
[snip]
> > It's just a matter of not spending the effort
> > on QA. :D
> >
>
> 1. How can you judge SO's stability on *nix, when you didnt use it on
> *nix?
It's a development process thing. Their process let
the Windows StarOffice through; if the Unix one
is stable, then they just plain lucked out.
> 2. Are you again trying to say that m$ software does more testing than
> open software gets? Should I start laughing now?
I think it gets more QA. Having lots of people
run your software is not really much of a substitute
for that.
There's a lot more to it than releasing a beta.
[snip]
> > > What? what choice of a window manager and/or windowing envirnment do
you
> > > have on window$?
> >
> > Developers can chose to write for X-Windows
> > if they like; X-Servers exist for Windows.
> >
> > They don't because there's no advantage to using
> > X-Windows; it's not a very strong technology
> > next to GDI.
>
> Um, if developers dont write for X-Windows, why am i writning this on
> Metscape/Linux? why are there so many apps for X-windows?
One of the main advantages Unix does have is
portability- it can easily be ported to new hardware,
and to a wider variety of same than many other
alternatives. You can even do it yourself.
If this is what you are after, then X is really
your only choice.
Unix isn't worthless- not at all. It has advantages
all its own. It's not just real strong for ordinary
desktop use.
> Why do you
> insist that winod$ is the cat's ass and everythig else sucks, when you
> MUST know better?
See what I mean about not really believing
that I disagree with you?
[snip]
> > However, users can buy alternative widget
> > sets that change the way the software looks-
> > including how the window frames look.
> >
> Really? I dont have to buy anything. I dont even have to change window
> managers to completely change the way my windows look.
.. by changing to different apps, perchance?
> > In this way they can have *both* a consistant
> > user interface *and* their choice of widgets,
> > if they like that sort of thing.
>
> So can I. Remember - YOU said skins-themes=widgets.
Skins minus themes equals widgets? I said that?
I musta been smoking the good stuff. :D
[snip]
> > Though if I had to point out specific issues,
> > I could I suppose mention that Bonobo's
> > notion of a moniker is a little limited. OLE's
> > is more futureproof, since it does not specify
> > that the stored representation of a moniker
> > is a path.
>
> Nope.. you said they were almost exactly the same and equal ...
I think you are reading too much into
".. takes a chromosone count to tell the difference".
That's a colorful turn of phrase, not a philosophy
to live by.
[snip]
> > Still, the big problem you get with something
> > like Bonobo is that it's strictly playing
> > catch-up. It's not better than Windows'
> > OLE because it isn't *trying* to be better-
> > it's trying to catch up.
>
> Nope.. you said they were almost exactly the same and equal ...
I don't see how this flimsy excuse is even
relevant to my last point.
Even if Bonobo were *exactly* identical
to OLE, it would still be rather late, and
MS has been moving on to other things.
[snip]
> > Maybe. Consider that MS settled with Digitial
> > over the similarities between NT and VMS.
> >
> > It's like that.
>
> The why isnt there some sort of suit? Um, like that?
What makes you think the Gnome
Foundation has enough money for it to be
worthwhile?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:17:05 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Jim Richardson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 14 May 2001 21:46:05 -0700
<9dqck6$d0u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In msgid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Hauck wrote: on Sunday
>13 May 2001 15:43
>
>> On 13 May 2001 12:09:05 -0500, Jan Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> I have to use caps cause lamers won't permit HTML in newsgroups so we
>>> could use italics, bold and proper quoting styles so we're forced to use
>>> something else.
>>
>> Some old-timer told me that it was /italics/, *bold*, and _underline_.
>>
>
>I have been playing with Knode, (I usually use slrn) and just noticed that
>Knode rendered your markup correctly, sweet :) I though I had it in html
>mode or something. But it groks the markup you used just fine...
Interesting, but is it smart enough to handle
s/pattern/replacement/g
? :-)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random command examples here
EAC code #191 33d:18h:14m actually running Linux.
I don't hate Microsoft. Just their products.
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:19:48 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Daniel Johnson wrote:
[snip]
> > Oy. Tall order. :D
> >
> > And I'm not sure it matters. In a real sense themes
> > are skins and skins are widget sets. The differences
> > are not really worth arguing over.
>
> So, if themes=skins=widget sets, and there are tons of themes and skins
> for * how are there not tons of widget sets?
Oh, there *are* tons of widget sets. For
all these OSes.
> > What I'm trying to get at is a layer deeper. Not the
> > widget set but the supporting infrastructure.
>
> You've been saying widget sets, not you are changing what you are
> saying.. big suprise.
I guess you haven't been reading my posts, again.
[snip- exposition on CreateWindow]
> > It's possible to implement a layer on top
> > of X that would provide for this, but
> > you'd have to convince developers to use it,
> > and that may be hard- they have already written
> > a lot of code to the various present-day
> > implementations. They'd have to port to it.
>
> Isnt this what window amangers do?
No, it isn't. Any further quesitons?
[snip]
> > So I expect that the practical limitations
> > that Unix has here will remain for some
> > time, even if the needed infrastructure
> > materializes tomorow.
>
> Even tough, as you've stated, themes=skins=widget sets?
Yes. No matter *what* you call them, the
infrastructure that deals with them must be
used in apps before it can accomplish
anything.
------------------------------
From: cash <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What does XP stands for ???
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 14:24:36 -0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It means eXPerience. In other words, WinXP with be a great eXPerience for
users.
Osugi Sakae wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Karel Jansens"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 30 May 2001 14:24:32 GMT, Zsolt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>I've seen some rather good, although 'unofficial' explanations about the
>>>XP abbreviation in Windows XP. Let's try to collect them in this thread.
>>>Anybody, who has other good idead, please post them here!
>>>
>>>To kick-off the collection, some idea's I've seen so far on this
>>>newsgroup:
>>>
>>>eXPerimental
>>>eXtra Problems included
>>>eXtremely Pathetic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Formerly Urine.
>>
>> (This one will not likely be bashed by any winvocates, as it requires
>> some actual thinking)
>>
>
>> ===========================================================
>> Give a man fire and he is warm for a day.
>> Set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.
>> ===========================================================
>
> Both jokes are funny, but i like the sig better.
>
> --
> Osugi Sakae
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:29:30 GMT
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
[snip]
> > > In my means, just grabbing or downloading source from the web and just
> > > compiling the source code.
> >
> > In this case, I would agree with daniel, it's likely that xgdb has
plenty of
> > #ifdef in it, so it change it code depending on where it is.
>
> I think it has to do more with the layers of the X environment. Xlib is
> pretty raw stuff and there are other top layers. I think that when it
> compiles if you use the defaults the appropriate widget set is used.
This can be done, to an extent. Some of the widget sets do
have similar APIs, so that compiling for one or the other
is not a big problem.
It's not necesssary to sprinkly #ifdefs all over the code,
though a few here and there might be helpful, if your
program is getting fancy.
> I
> had Caldera installed at one time and compiled an old Motif program and
> it turned out looking like the KDE theme. I'm pretty sure that the
> theme can be changed, but haven't tried that. I've compiled one example
> in the back of O'reilleys book under several different WMs and it stayed
> with the respective WM. There were no ifdefs in that code.
I suspect this example used the Xt/Athena API; this API
is just about the same as for Motif and some others, and can
be recompiled for different widget sets fairly easily.
However, this API is not universal. It is exceedingly unpleasant,
basically, so alternatives have sprung up. It gets more
difficult to support more widget sets as more different APIs
turn up.
------------------------------
From: Philip Neves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:33:34 GMT
Don't get me wrong. I love linux don't want to use anything else. However,
at least with windows I can get my Epson Stylus Color 777 printer to work.
Even with window 95. With linux on the otherhand I have to resort to using
samba to network to another machine with windows on it to get the printer
to work. And lets not get into print daemons oh god I wish I had a Mac!
------------------------------
From: Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Argh - Ballmer
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:50:38 -0000
"Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Yes, the issue with GPL seems to center around its effect on the programs
>that it's integrated with. The fear that many companies have is that if they
>use GPL code anywhere in their product, that it could potentially expose
>them to loss of their product. Effectively, that makes GPL code unusable by
>any company, large or small, that markets a proprietary product.
True enough, but note those words "in their product." Mere running of
GPL'd code does nothing to your IP, but Ballmer did not make that
distinction in his public statement. This is FUD, clearly intended to
make the PHBs afraid to let the worker bees install Linux, compile with
GCC, draw with the Gimp, etc.
Ballmer, furthermore, did not distinguish the GPL from non-"viral"
licenses such as the BSDL. He made these ridiculous claims about
"open source software" without naming any license at all More lies,
more FUD.
>One last point, that everyone seems to be missing. Microsoft isn't making
>these arguments about GPL for any altruistic reason, or because they're
>worried about their own code base. This being cola, though, it's doubtful
>whether anyone here realizes what Microsoft's strategy is. Do you?
Anyone, Penguinista or not, who believes for a moment that Microsoft
does anything for altruistic reasons should have his head examined.
Microsoft's strategy is clear: spread FUD and scare the bejeezus out
of PHBs.
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
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