Linux-Advocacy Digest #38, Volume #35 Fri, 8 Jun 01 00:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: UI Importance (.)
Re: UI Importance (.)
Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!! (.)
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Larry Elmore)
Re: UI Importance ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: IBM Goes Gay (Rotten168)
Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: IBM Goes Gay (Shane Phelps)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Jan Johanson")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! (T. Max
Devlin)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: 8 Jun 2001 03:09:33 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:15:30 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> >But someone *still* has to write this documentation, you know.
>>> >And you need to *support* them.
>>>
>>> As far as I'm aware, documentation for said shells has already been
>>> written.
>>
>>Not for Windows.
>>You'll find that the terminology and the language of Windows' documentation
>>is different from other OS'.
>>Folder vs Directory, frex.
>>
>>And are they up to the standards of Windows documentation?
> Actually, I don't see the point in porting any shells to windows.
> Windows is a GUI orientated OS, and there's not a lot you can do from
> the command line apart from launching things and basic file
> manipulation.
Neat. You dont know a damn thing about windows either.
Tell me, just exactly why are you here again?
=====.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: 8 Jun 2001 03:10:49 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2001 20:52:55 +0100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>>>The shell picks up on rm, so that instead of calling the rm program, it
>>>>simply moves the file to the trash directory.
>>>>
>>>>Something like
>>>>
>>>>function rm()
>>>>{
>>>> mv $* ~/.trash/
>>>>}
>>>>
>>>>would be a very simplistic version in BASH.
>>>
>>> What's the more complex version?
>>
>>Something to deal sensibly with command line options since mv has
>>different options to rm.
>>
>>Also, mabey something to keep track of where files came from.
> This may be off topic, but one things the Windows command line has
> over the Linux one is that in Windows you can do something like "ren
> *.aaa *.bbb", which you can't do in Linux, unless you wrote a script
> or something.
Yes, actually you can, and theres a dozen different ways to do it
IN EACH SHELL.
It is becoming plain that you simply dont know anything about computers
in general, let alone operating systems, let along linux.
=====.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Date: 8 Jun 2001 03:12:42 GMT
drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:08:42 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>drsquare wrote:
>>>>I like beer but for some strange reason I get a bad headache and feel sick
>>>>after just 1 pint so I only drink spirits - I can drink at least 10
>>>>vodka&cokes in one evening with no problems.
>>>
>>> You're probably just gay or something.
>>
>>I think it's more to do with the quality of lager in pubs around here - I
> Lager? I thought you were talking about BEER, not that watery piss!
What do you prefer?
=====.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
From: Larry Elmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 03:19:47 GMT
Peter da Silva wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Larry Elmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It's not? You mean there actually _aren't_ any companies that now sell
> > both Windows and Linux PCs? I'd have _sworn_ I'd read about several
> > doing so. Must've just been propaganda. :)
>
> Don't be silly.
>
> I mean that for the end user it's no easier to buy a typical PC without
> Windows than it was before the consent decree. I mean that Microsoft
> doesn't actually force companies to sell Windows with every PC, but
> they sure encourage it as hard as they can without stepping over the
> line.
As would almost any company that's competent enough to stay in business.
Corporations cannot be expected to do anything except what they perceive
to be in _their_ best interest. That's just reality.
> And I'm sure you know that. It'd be hard to miss it, unless you simply
> haven't bought a consumer-grade PC in the last few years. In which
> case, what on earth are you basing your reasoning on?
Of _course_ I know it, and I thought I've made myself very clear on the
matter -- mass market manufacturers sell to the mass market. Like it or
not, Windows is the mass market right now. If you want a custom machine,
you're going to have to work harder finding it. When have I said
anything different? I'm beginning to think you snip messages before
_reading_ them, not while replying to them!
> You're splitting hairs on the license, too:
And since when has legalese ever been anything _but_ hair-splitting?
> > > Not without violating the license. The last PCs we bought, the license was
> > > a sticker attached to the case. Even before that, it was labelled "Only for
> > > sale with a new PC". Sometimes you don't even get physical media, you just
> > > get a CD image on the second partition you can burn to a CD if you want.
>
> > The license is in Windows itself, as well (try "Help").
>
> I don't believe Microsoft considers that file to constitute a valid license
> to use Windows on that PC. It's for information only.
If you have proof that Microsoft puts differently worded licenses in
their OS Help file than what came with it on paper, that would be most
surprising.
Larry
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:07:57 +0200
"Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9fomdf$qcf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9fo7c0$n1j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9fnbfu$2uvq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Still leaving lousy shell scripting and a "choice" of only one
shell.
> > > >
> > > > BTW has MS implemented *real* regular-expression matching yet?
> > >
> > > In VBScript yes. The regexp matching is I believe modelled on Perl's.
> > > Since MS push WSH as the scripting tool of choice, this makes sense.
> >
> > Actually, this is incorrect.
> > Windows has a regular expression, it's accessible via a COM component.
> > This mean that *anything* on Windows can takes advantage of it, include,
> as
> > it is, VBS.
>
> Well the regexp stuff is *part* of VBScript, all you need is vbscript.dll
to
> use them, nothing else.
I don't think so.
I believe they use the regexp COM for this.
Can you show some code of what you mean?
------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 03:23:50 GMT
"." wrote:
>
> Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "." wrote:
> >>
> >> flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > On 8 Jun 2001 01:42:19 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
> >>
> >> >>flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >>> On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 00:37:19 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>I think it's lousy when employers take a stand on this sort of thing,
> >> >>>>one way or the other. Where I work we have annual "sensivity
> >> >>>>training." They tell us that what we mean when we speak is irrelavant;
> >> >>>>it's how our words make people feel that determines whether the
> >> >>>>words are punishable.
> >> >>
> >> >>> I agree.
> >> >>
> >> >>> I have several friends who work for IBM and they are quite upset about
> >> >>> all of this.
> >> >>> To quote one male friend of mine:
> >> >>
> >> >>> "I'd love to se their (IBM's) faces if I showed up wearing a mini
> >> >>> skirt and pumps one day"
> >> >>
> >> >>They wouldnt bat an eye, and if you actually did have a friend who worked
> >> >>for IBM (which you dont, this is more than confirmable, as is your gender;
> >> >>which is male, as is your age, which is older than you probably wish you
> >> >>were, as is your identity, etc, etc, etc)
> >> >>
> >> >>IBM has the same policy about transsexuals. Dipshit.
> >>
> >> > Call Renee Brown at 212-745-3626 and ask HER about IBM's gay and
> >> > lesbian policy.
> >>
> >> What ill do instead is call her and let her know that you just posted her
> >> real name and phone number to usenet, accessable to the entire planet.
> >>
> >> I cant wait to see what she says.
> >>
> >> -----.
> >>
> >> --
> >> "George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
> >>
> >> ---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
>
> > Make sure you keep that .sig when if you email her.
> > --
> > - Brent
>
> It is useful to keep in mind that my sig file is *satire*.
>
> And the person whom I am quoting is quite brilliant, and not homophobic
> in the least.
Didn't you call someone a limey in a recent post? I suppose that's not
as bad as being a homophobe, although I'm not sure why.
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:15:14 +0200
"Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <low blow> Windows NT /was/ written with protability in mind (Mach
> microkernel, HAL), but it looks like MS has abandoned that path...
> </low blow>
Not really.
There are going to be two version of WinXP & 2K for 64 bits.
Who want to bet on how long it would take to x86 proper to die?
I set the bet on five to ten years from the moment I can get Itanuim &
x86-64 on today's mid-high end prices.
Unless Intel decide to cut 32 bits and just do 64bits.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:22:39 +0200
"Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7zST6.66643$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Christopher L. Estep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > Microsoft was also sensible enough to realize that some developers
didn't
> > want any part of Microsoft development tools for reasons having nothing
to
> > do with their quality (or perceived lack of it). Microsoft concentrated
> > mostly on the higher-order languages (C++, Cobol. Fortran, etc.).
>
> I am having difficulty thinking of a development tools
> vendor that does not do that. Though most don't promote
> BASIC. :D
Well, VS (some versions, at least) can compile assembly, and MS still sell
MASM (microsoft assembler).
> > It took
> > Windows 95 for Microsoft to release Visual Basic upon an unsuspecting
> > planet.
>
> I'm sure there were 16-bit versions of VB. Didn't
> they predate 1995?
>
> I was under the impression that OCX controls
> were an effort to 'clean up' VBX controls and make
> them language-neutral and 32-bit compatible.
Yes, I think that VB4 was the first version for Win95.
I used VB3, it had a distinct 3.x look, even on 95.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:26:18 +0200
"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Max could easily be running Agent under Wine for Linux, and you wouldnt
> know. He could have modified his headers.
>
> But hes using Windows, and Agent, so what ?
I recall him bragging about getting Linux with a new machine some time ago.
What happened to it?
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:00:17 +1100
What about gender-shifters???
:-)
and it's not pertinant to an OS trolling NG anyway
Not that a lot of what we see he has any relevance either, but.....
flatfish+++ wrote:
>
> Folks, it's a sad day for IBM supporters because apparently they have
> succumbed to the gay pressure and are mobilizing to support this
> deviant lifestyle.
>
> A recent memo released to IBM employees includes such comments as:
>
> 1. A "lunch and learn" roundtable on 6/6/01 at 590 Madison ave.
> 2. How IBM plans to attract top gay and lesbian talent.
> 3. The role of IBM's new, dedicated GLBT Sales and Talent team.
>
> The memo, which is not IBM Confidential of Internal BTW, goes on to
> quote the constitution concerning equal rights and freedom of
> expression and so forth.
>
> It also gives a contacts which I am leaving out of this post, but if
> you are interested email me.
>
> So what do ya'll think?
>
> I find it disgusting that IBM will give benefits to homo's living
> together as if they are married yet 2 heterosexual partners will not
> get the same benefits not that I believe in cohabitation before
> marriage, but you get the idea.
>
> I realize this is controversial, but I have my opinions and IBM and
> the rest of the earth has theirs.
> I'm not judging, just voicing an objection.
>
> Only God almighty has the power to judge and his judgement is swift
> and fast.
>
> flatfish+++
> "Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: "Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:02:03 -0500
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 00:36:03 GMT, Christopher L. Estep
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Star Office? (Max, it's available for Windows (and it's still free), but
> >can't compare feature-wise to Office 97, let alone either 2000 *or* the
> >just-released XP.)
>
> Name a feature that it lacks compared to Office 97.
Can you embed a spreadsheet application within a word processing document
all within a slide show presentation? Clicking on any section allows full
power editing of that item within the native app.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:05:11 GMT
Said David Brown in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:44:18
>JS \ PL wrote in message ...
>>
>>"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:9fkjqd$93s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>>
>>> JS \ PL wrote in message ...
>>> >
>>> >> First off, what if that word document is open and the machine crashes
>>> >> or is shutdown while another user is using the system? If on reboot,
>>> >> everything is fine than I suspect a list of some sort is saved.
>>> >
>>> >The OS won't crash so I guess we'll never know the answer to "what if it
>>> >crashes". If you shut it down it warns of all active users, and asks if
>>> >you'd like to save whatever programs are open (that's what shutting down
>>> >IS).
>>> >
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope you'll forgive us if we all (even including most wintrolls, and MS
>>> themselves) laugh ourselves silly at that statement.
>
>Regardless of your personal experiances, most people suffer from crashes and
>instabilities in their Windows systems (note - I am not saying anything
>about whether other systems are better or worse). This applies to both
>applications and the OS itself, and all the bits that MS insists are in the
>OS when in court (such as IE), but which some people call applications when
>trying to say that the OS does not crash.
Very well put.
>For every new OS MS has come out with, they tell us how the old one was
>buggy but this one is perfectly stable and the "most reliable Windows ever".
>I'll happily believe that XP is "the most reliable Windows ever" - I haven't
>tried it myself, but that seems to be the general opinion of testers, so
>I'll go along with that. But any claims that it won't crash are just
>ridiculous.
When I was a child, it was the seventies, in Pennsylvania, and we grew
into adulthood believing that the world which we lived in was becoming
less naive, even as we did. Perhaps this is a conceit that all people
have as they age, but I think it might have had a lot to do with the new
global mass media (evil can no longer hide far away) and good ol' Tricky
Dick's great Watergate fiasco.
Anyway, my point is that I had THOUGHT that there was no adult left on
the planet stupid and ridiculous enough to NOT know that when it is "the
most reliable Windows ever", this is rather firm FACTUAL PROOF, all by
itself, that Windows is notoriously unreliable, and while improved in
whatever version is being touted, it still lags grievously behind any
possible alternative.
[...]
>>What does all that have to do with an operating system crash? The feature
>>your talking about gives you the option of saving an open document if the
>>"program" stops responding.
>
>You are correct - the new features of both Office XP and Win XP are geared
>towards application crashes rather than a crash in the OS itself. But I
>would expect that the same system (in Win XP) is designed to catch crashes
>in parts of Win XP (such as IE, or WMP).
First, the idea is ludicrous, of course. Software which functions
correctly when it malfunctions is a stupid plan, and we shouldn't waste
a bit more time on it. Second, I don't understand why you even
nominally include IE or WMP as 'parts of Win XP'.
>>I've been running Windows XP *BETA!* for a month
>>and the OS has never crashed. Been running Windows 2000 since the day it
>>hit the shelves and had 1 (one) OS crash. Whenever I run Mandrake programs
>>crash left and right. It's a rarity that even a "program" crashes under
>>Windows 2000.
>
>The choice of OS should not have anything to do with how often applications
>crash. [...]
Shouldn't, no. But that's why I call it monopoly crapware. Because it
does; applications crash more often and more easily on Windows.
Statistically, it is the most pathetic OS that has ever been
commercially distributed, let alone dominated a platform.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:05:12 GMT
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 6 Jun 2001
20:17:33 +0200;
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stephen Edwards) writes:
>> Seven rabid koala bears with eucalyptus spittle dribbling from their
>> mouths told me that [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Patrick Ford) wrote in
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>>>Stephen S. Edwards II wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>>I beg to differ. The literal meaning is something so badly injured as
>>>being beyond taking to hspital on a stretcher--only a basket will be
>>>suitable to contain the pieces.
>>
>> That's in your country, Einstein. In the
>> U.S. "basket case" refers to a person who
>> is nuts, and has to be hauled away in a
>> cage, usually in the back of a van. Such
>> a cage, in mental facility-speak, is often
>> referred to as a "basket".
>
>From the Oxford Dictionary of Slang:
>
>Basket case (1919) Orig. US military slang:
>
> applied especially to someone who has lost all four limbs;
> from the notion of someone who has no mobility and has to
> be carried around.
>
>> Tell me, do you try to be this pompous and
>> arrogant, or does it just come naturally?
>
>You were saying you ignorant yank?
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Talk about getting spanked.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:05:13 GMT
Said Nick Condon in alt.destroy.microsoft on 6 Jun 2001 17:36:54 GMT;
>Stephen Edwards wrote:
>
>>No, I'm a proud Yank. And the very notion that
>>a person should not be proud of his or her nation
>>is absurd. Everyone should be proud of their
>>heritage, and their home.
>
>Why? It's just where you born.
Why not? It is where you were born.
>It's not like you achieved anything.
It's not like you ever can really "achieve" anything in this life but
death.
>Your
>parents fucked, and out you popped.
Welcome to the magical mystery tour.
>It could have been anywhere.
You say that as if it is true. No, I could have been nowhere else, but
where I was. I would have had to be someone else to be born somewhere
else. Are you saying there is something WRONG with being born here? I
hope not, because if you are, I will *fuck* *you* *up*. :-D
>So just
>keep that image in mind, next time you feel patriotic, just visualise your
>father hunched over your mother. Which is all it comes down to, really.
So go blow your brains out. I won't care.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:05:14 GMT
Said drsquare in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:52:06
>On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:44:39 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stephen Edwards)) wrote:
>
>>>Stephen Edwards wrote:
>>>
>>>>No, I'm a proud Yank. And the very notion that
>>>>a person should not be proud of his or her nation
>>>>is absurd. Everyone should be proud of their
>>>>heritage, and their home.
>>>
>>>Why? It's just where you born. It's not like you achieved anything. Your
>>>parents fucked, and out you popped. It could have been anywhere. So just
>>>keep that image in mind, next time you feel patriotic, just visualise
>>>your father hunched over your mother. Which is all it comes down to,
>>>really.
>>
>>Remember that, when the Chinese police
>>are knocking at your door, and intend to
>>take you away for questioning.
>>
>>Again, spoken like a true communist.
>
>You really are paranoid and fucked up.
Why? Because he actually feels that democracy and freedom are better
than oppression of the individual and communism?
Sorry, he is correct. There is nothing at all wrong with recognizing
the superiority of your local group of monkeys. Inventing it out of
whole cloth is fascism, true, but we aren't discussing whether being
communist or being paranoid is worse. We are discussing, I think,
whether patriotism is a good thing, and indeed it is.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:05:15 GMT
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 6 Jun 2001
20:33:04 +0200;
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stephen Edwards) writes:
>>
>> No, I'm a proud Yank. And the very notion that
>> a person should not be proud of his or her nation
>> is absurd. Everyone should be proud of their
>> heritage, and their home.
>
>Nationalism and religeous hate have caused more problems on this
>planet than anything else.
Why confabulate the two? Is it because your point that patriotism is
bad is so utterly weak that unless you throw religion into the same mold
you don't have a point, maybe?
>I'm Scottish and proud of it but I
>don't hate the English for what they have done in the past.
Then why are you whining like a child because someone else is proud of
where they are from?
>I'm
>all for getting away from nationalism.
You'd prefer everyone in the world thought the same way? That's called
bigotry, to think your way is the only right way. When taken to
national levels, it generally becomes fascist. Now do you understand
why Stephen called you a communist?
>As a yank I would keep
>quiet as your country doesn't have a very good record as far
>as most of the rest of the world is concerned (other than the
>despots you have aided in supressing their citizens).
We happen to have one of the best records ever made, dickweed. Sure,
the French and the English (note the order, limey) were instrumental,
but then so were the ancient Greeks. The USA pretty much provided the
template for the modern sensibility of fundamental human rights, though,
and Americans are and rightly should be very proud of the fact.
That our record is not very good at all is a testament to the importance
of the fight, not any indication of losing ground or lack of
righteousness in the cause.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:05:16 GMT
Said Charlie Ebert in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:26:51
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Stephen Edwards wrote:
>>
>>I'm sick of working-class union-types, who think that
>>being American is about being a worker all your life.
>>
>>Being an American is about achieving greatness, on your
>>own, like in the old days, when people knew what they
>>had. If you think that there's no reason to love the
>>US, then I'd suggest that you go and live in China for
>>a few years, and then we'll see what you have to say.
>>
>>If you don't understand that, then you are a spineless
>>coward.
>>
>>Godammed fucking linguini-spined coward liberals just
>>piss me off... GRRR!@#
>
>You are quite possibly the most disgusting person
>I've ever encountered on the Internet.
>
>It is a horrible shame that you are amongst us.
Needless to say, Stephen, you should have just snipped that last part.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
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