Linux-Advocacy Digest #155, Volume #35 Tue, 12 Jun 01 10:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (mlw)
Re: UI Importance (JamesW)
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Chad Myers")
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals (Burkhard
=?iso-8859-1?Q?W=F6lfel?=)
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (Dan Pidcock)
Re: So what software is the NYSE running ? ("Chad Myers")
Re: So what software is the NYSE running ? ("Chad Myers")
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (pip)
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (pip)
Re: IBM Goes Gay (Nick Condon)
Re: IBM Goes Gay (Nick Condon)
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals (John LaVoy)
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Jan Vorbrueggen)
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals (Burkhard
=?iso-8859-1?Q?W=F6lfel?=)
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals (Burkhard
=?iso-8859-1?Q?W=F6lfel?=)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:01:04 -0400
pip wrote:
>
> mlw wrote:
> >
> > pip wrote:
> >
> > > If you are going to code for speed - then CODE FOR SPEED. You'll use
> > > system calls and native library calls which will all need changing
> > > anyway. I know from painful experience. So why not throw in specific
> > > compiler optimisations while we are at it and stop pretending to write
> > > portable code?
> >
> > Portable code is what I do best, sometimes however, it is easier to write whole
> > functions for various environment, based on knowlege about the various
> > environments. Of course you would write a baseline function in strict C, but
> > then optimize for the specific platform.
> >
> > void *MapFile(char *szFileName)
> > #ifdef UNIX
> > {
> > .....
> > return mmap(...);
> > }
> > #elif defined(WINDOWS)
> > {
> > /* Map file in Windows, there is a call which escapes me at the moment */
> > }
> > #else
> > {
> > void *p=NULL;
> > int file = open(szFileName,...);
> > if(file!=-1)
> > {
> > ssize_t size;
> > off_t len = lseek(file, 0, SEEK_EKD);
> > assert(len != -1);
> > p = malloc(len);
> > assert(p);
> > size = read(file,p,len);
> > assert(size == len);
> > }
> > return p;
> > }
> > #endif
>
> That is NOT portable code - that is three different code trees in the
> same file. You have a very different understanding of "portable" than I
> do it seems. But thanks at least for the code snippet. What I would like
> is the SAME code - and let the compiler and native libraries sort out
> optimisations for platform specific stuff. Anything else is wasting
> time.
That depends, for what I do the above routines are perfectly accepted as common
practices of the trade.
This is the difference between programmers and egineers. Programmers let the
environment have the knowledge, engineers create the environment in which
programmers work.
>
> Now I know I have come down hard on your blatant contempt for Java and
> Perl programmers, and I am not saying that you don't have valid points.
> BUT you must realise that as a programmer I get personal satisfaction in
> getting things to work as they should and THEN optimising. I do the same
> thing in C and Java (although the approach is different). The thing that
> strikes me is that I would like to simply write code for Linux and
> Windows. Other platforms are a benefit, but I do NOT want to change the
> code base if possible because I really don't want to waste my time.
The completely portable computing environment is a pipe dream. Like the
paperless office and the 20 hour work week. It is a pleasent notion, but it
isn't going to happen. As long as there are different operating systems and
different types of computers, there will always be an advantage to optimizing
for a platform.
Saying you like to write software but don't like the various platforms, is like
saying I love the view but hate the climb. The journey is the reward. If you
just want to take it easy and see only tourist spots, then you will never know
the places to which you travel. The same goes for programming.
Once you develop the skill and expertise to think how your code is executed as
you are writing it, you will never want to go back to java or perl.
> Of
> course I know that C is more efficient. I just am saying that mostly it
> is a waste of time for certain applications.
A waste of time is relative. I am more efficient in C/C++. I can bat out
something quicker in C++ than the Perl/Java proponents, with whom I've worked.
> Of course there is a very
> good case for using C sometimes and indeed I do. But PLEASE DON'T SAY
> THAT PEOPLE WHO USE JAVA ARE ANY LESS CLEVER BECAUSE THEY DO. For
> example, I have worked on a major Java project that involved testing out
> a complicated protocol specification. It was a joy to work with and we
> could do everything we needed (including interfacing with a custom C
> based driver for the technology). We then switched to C to make the
> final production code for the low memory target device (FYI using a
> real-time OS called pSOS a Unix like OS for embedded devices). So please
> don't lecture me in how I am stupid because I and people like me use and
> like Java.
Why on earth would you write something in Java then port it to C? That is a
complete waste of time. If you wrote it in C or C++ in the first place, you
would be done quicker.
------------------------------
From: JamesW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:48:29 +0100
In article <9g389v$1af$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, don'[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> NT uses Unicode, so you probably *could* use \0.
> I remember that there was a hack in www.systeminternals.com that thought how
> to create undeletable keys in the registry, I suppose it would work on NTFS
> as well.
>
The registry hack was nothing to do with unicode - it exploited the fact
that the NT Native registry APIs use counted strings but the Win32 APIs
use null terminated C strings. So keys like 'Hello\0World' made using the
native APIs would be unusable by the Win32 versions. If the native file
system APIs use counted strings then it might be possible to make strange
files with embedded NULLs...
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:01:30 -0500
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ed Allen
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote
> > on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:01:16 GMT
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >In article
> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > >GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>Chad Myers wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> It's pretty standard. Anyone who is a militant rabid defender
> > >>> of something is generally called a <term>inista.
> > >>>
> > >>> -c
> > >>
> > >>Therefore, that would make you a Windowinista... Billyinista...
> > >>Gatesinista....
> > >>
> > > He goes by the self proclaimed title:
> > >
> > > Chad Myers, jerk.
> > >
> > > But I do like the sound of Windowinista...
> >
> > I'm not sure I do; the word sounds like it trips over its own
> > shoelaces.
> >
> > Multiple times.
> >
> > But it does seem to be an appropriate metaphor for Windows, which
> > doesn't have shoelaces but still manages to trip over them
> > multiple times...
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > (Pedant point: how about "Windowsinista"? Still pertty trippy, though.)
> >
> Lets try Windanista.
It's not quite the same. You don't have rabid moronic Windows guerillas
who set up web sites to flame Linux in the droves that you do the
other way around. Windows advocates typically like Windows, keep the
Penguinistas from spreading too many lies, and extol the virtues of
Windows once in awhile. They have nothing to prove because they
just want to use what's right. Penguinistas, OTOH, earned the title
because of their militant and underground nature of attack, propaganda,
and flame.
-c
------------------------------
From: Burkhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=F6lfel?=
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:35:56 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> Screw them. In this day and age, if you have AIDS, you're an idiot,
> and should be just lined up against the wall and shot, just on principle,
> for being such a fucking dumbass.
Wow. Loud, man , that's loud.
Doesn't make it sense though.
--
=============================================
Burkhard Wölfel
v e r s u c h s a n s t a l t (at) g m x . de
pubkey for this adress @ pgp.net
=============================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Pidcock)
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:05:16 GMT
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:22:54 -0400, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Damnit!! People who program computers should, at least, understand how
>computers work. When one understands how a computer functions, C and C++ are
>trivial. It is only when they lack understanding about the very device they are
>trying to use, is programming difficult.
>
>char *function(char *str)
>{
> int len = strlen(str)*2+1;
> char p[len];
> char *pT = p;
> while(*str)
> {
> switch(*str)
> {
> case '@':
> case '\'':
> *pT++='@';
> *pT++=*str++;
> break;
> default:
> *pT++=*str++;
> break;
>
> }
> }
> return strdup(p);
>}
And how about recoding that in a "kiddie" language?
Something like
$_ ~= s/'@'/'@@'/;
$_ ~= s/'\'/'\@'/;
C is not the language of choice for every situation.
remove .hatespam to reply
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So what software is the NYSE running ?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:08:06 -0500
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Jon Johansan wrote:
> >
> > "Dennis G. Allard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:<84aU6.9834$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > I'm talking about what they [the NYSE] use for managing trades.
> > > >
> > > > Well, their web site runs under AIX, so one would assume that they're
> > > > probably a big IBM shop, and are probably running trades under AIX
> > and/or
> > > > OS/390.
> > >
> > > If they were running anything Microsoft, they would have crashes so much
> > > more often it would make this little down time look like a holiday!
> >
> > You might want to consider that the NASDAQ runs MS for 90% of their
> > operation and has had 0. That's zero MS related downtime since their
> > adopting NT. They continue to convert their backend operations to W2K but
> > are not completed. This is not an operation you take lightly or race ahead
> > quickly but they are doing it. Converting from archiac Unix mainframes to
> > W2K servers.
>
> That all depends on what you mean by "archaic". Do you mean the old
> hardware boxes or the o/s? From my viewpoint I consider Win2k a kludge
> compared to unix. Some consider unix to be very old and win2k as a
> modern o/s... I kept checking into many reviews from different sources
> on Win2k and find it is more of a kludge... can't call that modern.
> At least Unix is structured and has some good reasons for its design.
Please refrain from speaking out of your ass.
Every Unix system I've used so far (which is Solaris, AIX, IRIX,
Linux, and BSD) (yes, I know Linux isn't Unix, but you get my drift)
every single one of them seems to be teetering on the edge of failure.
I've had to reinstall this Solaris box on my desk 3 times now because
the fscking pkgadd and patchadd BS fails constantly while installing
patches. If you call that "structured" and a "good design" then you're
smoking crack.
Win2K, OTOH, seems to be well structured in the kernel, as well as
the rest of the OS. You could debate the Win32 API (which is seperate,
BTW), but the kernel is rock solid. Top-notch SMP, proven VMM and
process seperation, multi-user, certified DAC security infrastructure,
etc. It's quite well designed, you must not know what you're talking
about, or you're thinking of Win9x.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So what software is the NYSE running ?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:09:53 -0500
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Michael Vester wrote:
> >
> > GreyCloud wrote:
> > >
> > > Chad Myers wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Michael Vester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not too sure about the NYSE, but I think the NASDAQ,
unfortunately, runs
> > > > > > on Windows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matthew Gardiner
> > > > > >
> > > > > NASDAQ's web server is Windows. The computer that actually does the
> > > > > trading is a big Unisys mainframe. Microcomputer architecture just
isn't
> > > > > capable. It's not a Windows verses Linux issue.
> > > >
> > > > About a year ago it was still Unisys. Last year they announced they were
> > > > moving to Win2K Datacenter. I'm not sure if they actually did it, or if
> > > > it's complete yet or not, but I would imagine we would've heard about it
> > > > if it went south.
> > > >
> > > > -c
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:84aU6.9834$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:3%9U6.1335$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > > > In article <3b212110$0$94312$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chad
Myers
> > > > > > > says...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED] dripot> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > >news:CP8U6.1221$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > > > >> What's the skinny ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >What software are they running for what?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Haven't heard about the fiasco today ?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm talking about what they use for managing trades.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, their web site runs under AIX, so one would assume that
they're
> > > > > > > probably a big IBM shop, and are probably running trades under AIX
and/or
> > > > > > > OS/390.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Michael Vester
> > > > > A credible Linux advocate
> > > > >
> > > > > "The avalanche has started, it is
> > > > > too late for the pebbles to vote"
> > > > > Kosh, Vorlon Ambassador to Babylon 5
> > >
> > > Highly unlikely that any stock exchange is using micros or microsoft
> > > products to run the core of operations. These are done with
> > > mainframes... goto comp.os.vm or comp.os.vms and ask the question.
> > >
> > > --
> > > V
> > Exactly. There are many applications out there that can't be run on a
> > microcomputer platform. Our local municipal government still runs a
> > Unisys system for tax assessment. IBM tried for 10 years to move it over
> > to an IBM mainframe platform. They failed. Now they are trying to move it
> > to a losedos/Oracle platform. I don't think they will be any more
> > successful.
> >
>
> hehehe... I our city moved over to win2k and oracle to maintain records
> of traffic violations. Then one day ol' Barney Fife caught me doing 38
> in 35 mph zone and gave me a ticket... I waited and watched the
> newspaper for any down time... sure enough they went down... I trekked
> on down to the courthouse to see if I had any moving violations on file
> and they said 'nope'. Sometimes it pays to have Win2k in government.
Right.
*cough*bullshit*cough*.
I know you penguinistas will stoop to the lowest levels, but flat out
lying is quite rediculous. Are you guys that sad that you must
make lies up just to defend your poor choice in OS?
-chad
*PLONK*
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:12:56 +0100
mlw wrote:
> Why on earth would you write something in Java then port it to C? That is a
> complete waste of time. If you wrote it in C or C++ in the first place, you
> would be done quicker.
Because Java provides a clean, robust, portable language to code in. The
implementation was far faster than dealing with pointer problems or GUI
issues. Other companies did actually choose a difference route and
decided that their "prototype" would be evolved into the final
application. Now I don't know if we are just better coders, but the
majority of their bugs were on their side and most were implementation
details rather than protocol problems. We also started from a clean
slate for the final implementation so that we have the BESt design
possible from the knowledge we got from the prototype. I even helped
code a program to translate some of our Java code into C to save time in
some areas, so it provided a very useful platform (thus avoiding common
programming errors). For the target platform we did evaluate if we could
use Java by using a Java chip, but concluded that it would be
impractical at that time. Also we evaluated C++ but found the compiler
support lacking. Again - we used the pragmatic approach of the best
tools for the best job.
But then again that is how _some_ companies work in the real world.
Others cut corners and produce a buggy pile of steaming kak. To us,
reliability and robustness was the most important factor. You can't have
a memory leak in an embedded platform otherwise you get angry customers.
It requires a very good design and implementation which must be of the
highest standards - not a HACK!
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:15:45 +0100
Dan Pidcock wrote:
> And how about recoding that in a "kiddie" language?
> Something like
> $_ ~= s/'@'/'@@'/;
> $_ ~= s/'\'/'\@'/;
>
> C is not the language of choice for every situation.
Don't be so silly Dan! Where are the possibility of pointer errors here
? Are you trying to put us out of jobs ?
What? You want programmers to be MORE productive ? Eh? You want them to
use a clean safe language ? Eh? That does not compute.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: 12 Jun 2001 13:25:45 GMT
Edward Rosten wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "chrisv"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED].
>>>..
>>>>
>>>> Excuse me... ahem... could someone direct me to the linux advocacy
>>>> newsgroup?
>>>
>>>I think it vanished like Atlantis. Over half the posts I'm getting
>>>from this group now are about homosexuals and gays.
>>
>> Why not talk about this? We've already established that Windows is
>> superior to Linux in every regard, right?
>
>LOL!
>
>And whilst we're off topic, why not dip in to some
>racism/nationalism/patriotism debates?
Why not? The arguments are the same, it's only the labels that change ;-)
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: 12 Jun 2001 13:43:50 GMT
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>Hmm, yet another typical American Bigot. No wonder shooting spree's
>happen in the US with that sort of anti-social, bigotted belief system.
>Maybe you, Flatfish, should buy a big cupboard and hide yourself in it
>for ever, whilst the rest of the world moves forward without your
>insecurities.
>
Sorry, I think you're in the wrong thread, the US vs Europe one is over
there ...
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: John LaVoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:06:50 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
>
> which DEADLY, INCURABLE diseases are spread by heterosexual contact?
AIDS
------------------------------
From: Jan Vorbrueggen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: 12 Jun 2001 15:44:59 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Maynard Handley) writes:
> I've been reading the followup to my message in bizarre amazement.
> Did no-one actually understand my point?
Oh yes, we have.
> The issue is NOT "how do I back up the system and then restore it to the
> same or an equivalent system"?
> The issue is, imagine I have a system that I've used for 4 years. It has
> on it maybe two hundred app, perhaps twenty of them commercial, the rest
> free/shareware. The apps have installed shared libs in various places,
> prefs in various places, help files and dictionaries and file translator
> plugins in various places. In addition various pieces of hardware (NTSC
> capture card eg) have installed their crud in various places.
Get a real OS that doesn't try to emulate a program loader such as MS-DOS.
For instance, try VMS. (Soon, you will be able to do so again, on your PC
running Windows to boot 8-).)
Jan
------------------------------
From: Burkhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=F6lfel?=
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:40:25 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rotten168 wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> >
> > I like SANE people. Most black people I know are sane (unlike you).
> > Gays are suicidal, which is not sane.
>
> Actually you may be right there. Young gay men are having unprotected
> sex at an extremely high and foolish rate, which is suicide. But it
> doesn't have to be that way.
You didn't get Mr. Kulekiss right here. Unprotected sex is not the issue
here. He states in another posting that heterosexual men can't get AIDS.
I quote from this posting:
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:45:36 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >Ed Cogburn wrote:
>
> >> > which DEADLY, INCURABLE diseases are spread by heterosexual contact?
> >>
> >> Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.
> >
> >Not for men.
--
=============================================
Burkhard Wölfel
v e r s u c h s a n s t a l t (at) g m x . de
pubkey for this adress @ pgp.net
=============================================
------------------------------
From: Burkhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=F6lfel?=
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:57:17 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
drsquare wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:45:36 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >Ed Cogburn wrote:
>
> >> > which DEADLY, INCURABLE diseases are spread by heterosexual contact?
> >>
> >> Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.
> >
> >Not for men.
>
> Yep, you've confirmed it. You really DON'T know what you're talking
> about.
And we spent so much time on him...
>
> >> Aaron, you ignorant and sad excuse for a human being, I told you before
> >> when you were on one of your rants that the population of Zimbabwe is
> >> being decimated by AIDS, as well as other areas in Africa, and the
> >> transmission is exclusively HETEROSEXUAL. They have orphanages full of
> >> orphans who have lost their parents to AIDS, and many of them have
> >> gotten AIDS too, from their mother.
> >
> >And this is pertinent to North America how, exactly?
>
> Who mentioned North America?
--
=============================================
Burkhard Wölfel
v e r s u c h s a n s t a l t (at) g m x . de
pubkey for this adress @ pgp.net
=============================================
------------------------------
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