Linux-Advocacy Digest #195, Volume #35 Wed, 13 Jun 01 17:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish) ("Mart van de Wege")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Stuart Fox")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Stuart Fox")
Re: Gadget-lover's product suggestion: "Linux Home Server" ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Stuart Fox")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (Colin Day)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (GreyCloud)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts (GreyCloud)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (GreyCloud)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (GreyCloud)
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (Colin Day)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (GreyCloud)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (GreyCloud)
Re: Will MS get away with this one? (Form@C)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and (GreyCloud)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:51:42 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Terry Porter"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
>
> Then I told Debian to install some packages not installed in the
> 'simple' option. One was 'Xchat' my IRC client, and here's the log of
> the entire process :)
>
> ............................................................... My CLI
> Command :- gronk:/home/tp# apt-get install xchat
>
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> The following extra packages will be installed:
> python-base xchat-common
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
> python-base xchat xchat-common
> 0 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 36 not upgraded.
> Need to get 1374kB of archives. After unpacking 4403kB will be used.
>
> ( I just press enter here)
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
>
> Get:1 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main python-base 1.5.2-10potato11
> [824kB]
>
> Get:2 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main xchat 1.4.3-0.1[383kB]
>
> Get:3 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main xchat-common 1.4.3-0.1
> [167kB]
>
> Fetched 1374kB in 7m26s (3079B/s)
> selecting previously deselected package python-base. (Reading database
> ... 28737 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking
> python-base (from .../python-base_1.5.2-10potato11_i386.deb) ...
> Selecting previously deselected package xchat-common. Unpacking
> xchat-common
> (from .../xchat-common_1.4.3-0.1_all.deb) ...
>
> Selecting previously deselected package xchat. Unpacking xchat (from
> .../xchat_1.4.3-0.1_i386.deb) ... Setting up python-base
> (1.5.2-10potato11) ...
>
> Setting up xchat-common (1.4.3-0.1) ...
>
> Setting up xchat (1.4.3-0.1) ...
>
> gronk:/home/tp#
> ..................................................................
>
> Is this simple or what ???????
>
> As you can see, to install Xchat I needed to type only *1* line, and
> press enter twice :-
>
> gronk:/home/tp# apt-get install xchat
>
> and
>
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
>
> And Debian fetched the app from its main site, plus the python base and
> installed it, *AND* added it to the *IceWm menu*, all automatically!
>
> Plus while it was doing it, I was reading news groups, the pc wasnt
> affected at all.
>
> The price for this innovative operating system ?
>
> Was it $2850 (gst inc) for the OS plus 5 Client Access? (source APC
> magazine June 2001, Harris Technology, for Win2k
> Small Business Server)
>
> But wait, send no money ......
>
> Was it $607 for the OS only ?
> (same source Win2k "Professional")
>
> But wait, theres still more .....
>
> I get "remote assistant" (Win2k Proffesional ONLY) and I can have as
> many clients as I like :)
>
> So how much did I pay ??
>
> $16,and that included 3 CD's and the 176 page book (APC "Advanced Linux
> Pocketbook")
>
> Debian I *love* you!
>
Now, it gets better Terry!
Debian 2.2 is the stable distro. It is about 3/4s of a year out of date.
If you don't mind a little flakiness with the occasional app (oh, good
sigmonster), you should try upgrading to testing or the real bleeding
edge, unstable! very simple, open /etc/apt/sources.list in a text editor,
change all uncommented lines that mention stable to either 'testing' or
'unstable', save and issue 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade'. BANG!
you're box is immediately up to date with the latest in Free Software.
Debian's great innit?
Mart.
--
Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil,
Going with the flow, it's all the same to me,
Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you,
Double up or quit, double stake or split, The Ace Of Spades
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:51:45 +1200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:SngV6.42613$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Yes, I know about PRN.
> > But it's possible that the FTP server used an API which doesn't check
for
> > magic device names, which is how it created the directory.
> > It might've been possible to delete it the same way, too.
> >
> > BTW, you can open & write to PRN, so some file operations are allowed.
>
> You might think you are writing to a file named PRN because
> you specified a path that was accepted by the open, but you
> aren't really. Is there a hacker's kit somewhere that will
> create a directory with that name?
There was an article in the knowledge base which said something like
"applications control creating files with special names, not the OS", which
I found a bit puzzling. One of the solutions to getting rid of a directory
named PRN was to use rm, instead of del. Of course, this relies on having
rm from somewhere, I believe it ships with the resource kit. I haven't
found anything that would let you create a directory with that name, ftp
service in Win2K certainly doesn't let you...
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:53:44 GMT
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:26:50 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >"Tim Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[snip]
> >> but the original claim was 'using PDF's to create web pages, not
'having
> >> links to PDF files on a web page.
> >
> >It's the same thing.
>
> No it's not. A PDF site is a site where all the actual documents are
> PDF.
*All* of them?
Does that mean that an HTML site is one where
all the actual documents are HTML?
[snip]
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:54:53 +1200
"Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g681i$71i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Just to note, http://www.xtramsn.co.nz/ which is a joint venture between
> Xtra, New Zealands largest ISP and MSN, The site www.xtramsn.co.nz is
> running Netscape-Enterprise/3.6 SP3 on Solaris, this a company that is, in
> theory, meant to be the official New Zealand partner in e-commerce and
> internet inferstructure, yet the still retains a nice fleet of SUN
servers.
> Reliable, flexible and ready to rumble, as in the words of the Microsoft
> "enterprise" ad on CNN.
You don't perchance think that they just threw that page up on a server that
Xtra already had? Is that in the realms of possibility?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Gadget-lover's product suggestion: "Linux Home Server"
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:57:07 GMT
What a great idea. We could call the trend "digital convergence."
Unfortunately things are headed just as much in the opposite direction.
Producers - of hardware, software, and content - don't mind making
product improvements when they have to, but not if it means allowing
you to skip commercials, easily switch to competing products, or pay for
information only once - or not at all. Why should Sony's content division
create information accessible on any old device when it can instead
lock you into Sony's hardware division? And why should the media gods allow
some nobody to make up their own DVD player and pipe video all over the
place? Not when the DMCA can stop it. It's not like some little
newcomer is going to come along with enough money to take over the
industry by catering to the customer's needs.
So yes, it would work, and no, it won't happen.
Flacco wrote:
> The Linux Home Server provides:
>
>
> Standard account/file/print services for PC's / laptops, as well as
> Internet gateway and firewall.
>
> Central "digital VCR". Outputs for multiples viewing points, which may be
> TV's or PC's. Maybe with tivo-like services, either through Tivo
> directly, a competitor, community-maintained TV listings, or combination.
>
> Central audio services, with multiple outputs for different rooms. Easy
> methods for adding new digital audio files, with searchable and browseable
> indexes. Interfaces to portable digital music units.
>
> Voice mail, phone lists, and auto-dial.
>
> Lots of consumer-oriented software: greeting card design, central
> shoppping list (publishable to outside servers so that Dad can pick stuff
> up on his way home from work :-)), genealogy trees and birthday reminders,
> publishable home photo albums, etc. The Game Addict pack adds stuff like
> built-in Quake server.
>
> X-10 home control interface.
>
> All server functions can be monitored and controlled from a control panel
> automatically installed on any workstation.
>
> Home Server data can be published or replicated to any outside Internet
> server using standard protocols, and can be accessed via a web-based
> interface (in other words, Hailstorm-like functionality without selling
> your soul and all your data to Microsoft).
>
> Both free and non-free software can be installed and upgraded over the
> network.
>
> Works with Windows or Linux clients (but pushes Linux like a schoolyard
> dope dealer :-)).
>
> Client software installable directly off of server (plug in new
> workstations, run install, and go to work/play). Any blank machine with a
> bootable CD-ROM and a network connection can plug into the home network
> and have a Linux distro installed and custom-configured for the home
> network.
>
> What do you think? Why would or wouldn't something like this work?
>
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:55:49 +1200
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Jon Johansan wrote:
>
> [big snip]
>
> One thing I noticed about our colo facility was that we have 12 rack mount
> Linux boxes. Every last one shipped with Windows 95 installed on it.The
vendor
> wanted more to ship it with Linux than with obsolite versions of Windows
95.
Which vendor ships rack mount Windows 95 boxes? This seems a little
optimistic?
------------------------------
From: Colin Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:10:05 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> >and from my
> >friends, most pick BOTH drives,
>
> I've never seen a system available with both a DVD and a CDRW. A DVD
> and a CDROM, sure. Maybe you don't understand the difference?
>
HP Pavilion 8765c has both.
Colin Day
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:04:16 -0700
drsquare wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:30:53 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >drsquare wrote:
>
> >> >> Wow, you spend billions of tax payers money on taking someone to a
> >> >> large piece of rock, acheiving what? Meanwhile, children are starving
> >> >> to death across the world...
> >> >
> >> >Now we are supposed to feed them too? Why don't the Dutch do it?
> >>
> >> Typical American attitude. Let the children starve to death whilst we
> >> send pieces of metal into space for fun.
> >
> >Typical whinney Dutch for laying the blame on the US for not feeding the
> >world.
> >Go grow your own and blame your own politicians for their ineptitudes.
>
> This just gets funnier every day.
And you're getting denser everyday. Now I know where lead is imported
from.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:06:12 -0700
Mart van de Wege wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Thaddius Maximus"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > The Dutch would have a surplus of food if they weren't so freakin'
> > fascinated with using every square inch of farmland to grow tulips!
> >
> Ok, I have been following your anti-Europe rants in the hope that you
> would be slightly more sensible, but now you've done it. FYI farmland in
> the Netherlands is predominantly mixed agriculture, mostly cows, corn and
> wheat. There is a big stretch of 1 (that is ONE) province out of 12 that
> is *predominantly* bulbs (province of Zuid-Holland, around the town of
> Lisse). Next time, get an education because I won't be providing it
> anymore to you (for free even!).
>
> *plonk*
>
> Mart (Dutch, and proud of it too)
>
> --
> Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil,
> Going with the flow, it's all the same to me,
> Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you,
> Double up or quit, double stake or split, The Ace Of Spades
Well, it won't be long until the One Worlders will have us under one
roof and all of us paying one tax. :-(
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:07:56 -0700
drsquare wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:39:30 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >drsquare wrote:
>
> >> >As for the Japanese: quick, pick one: did you want hundreds of
> >> >thousands of Japanese to die, or hundreds of thousands of Americans
> >> >and millions of Japanese, and a long, protracted invasion which
> >>
> >> There are many alternatives.
> >
> >There really wasn't one. You overlook a point that was not really
> >pushed or reported on.
> >The Japanese were also developing a nuclear bomb. So it was either them
> >or us.
> >Truman really didn't have a choice.
>
> If you believe that you are more naive than I at first estimated.
And you are dumber than I first thought. These facts are now coming to
light. Go to the web and look it up for yourself.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:08:33 -0700
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "drsquare"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:39:30 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > (GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> >>drsquare wrote:
> >
> >>> >As for the Japanese: quick, pick one: did you want hundreds of
> >>> >thousands of Japanese to die, or hundreds of thousands of Americans
> >>> >and millions of Japanese, and a long, protracted invasion which
> >>>
> >>> There are many alternatives.
> >>
> >>There really wasn't one. You overlook a point that was not really
> >>pushed or reported on. The Japanese were also developing a nuclear bomb.
> >> So it was either them or us. Truman really didn't have a choice.
> >
> > If you believe that you are more naive than I at first estimated.
>
> it is true that the Japanese had developed a bomb. However, the them or
> us is bollocks because the Japanese had no air force left and hence no
> delivery mecanism for the bomb.
If there is a will there is a way.
------------------------------
From: Colin Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:17:13 -0400
Peter K=F6hlmann wrote:
> What are you ranting about?
> A DVD is quite good as a replacement for a CD, as it is able to read
> the CD=B4s also. Have you ever by accident seen a SuSE 7? It consists
> of 7 CD=B4s and 1 DVD, which holds the contents of the 7 CD=B4s.
> Its just conveniant to pop in only the DVD and be done with it instead =
of
> shuffling the CD=B4s when you install.
It took 12 hours for the packages to install from DVD. Of course , I did
install everything (this was Suse 7.1 Professional). Installing via CD
took far less time. On the other hand, for reinstalling a particular
package it's
nice not to have to search for the package in several CD's
=
> But who would expect TMax (who uses Windows) to know about that.
> For him it=B4s certainly sufficient to ramble about it out of ignorance=
=2E
> =
> Peter
> =
> --
> The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably
> the day they start making vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge
Colin Day
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:10:22 -0700
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> > There are a few things to remember about the nuking of Japan. Most
> > importantly, the bombing was no worse than that which the British and
> > the Germans had done to each other in Europe. The only two real
> > difference was that it used a single bomb at a time rather than a fleet
> > of bombers, and that it left more people with permanent injuries from
> > radiation rather than just killing them. Do you know how "fire bombing"
> > worked? That was when a fleet of bombers dropped vast numbers of
> > incendery and explosive bombs over a small area. The massive fires
> > caused by this lead to searing winds at hurrican speeds, inrushes of
> > oxygen that cause people well outside the bombing area to sufficate
> > where they stand (or hide in bomb shelters), and a vast mushroom cloud
> > forms above the bombed area, and drops thick layers of ash and rubble
> > over a wide area. Barring the lack of radiation, doesn't that remind
> > you of something? This technique was used on a number of occasions - if
> > I remember rightly, Dresden was fire-bombed to greater devastation than
> > Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
>
> You seem to be implying that because the British and Germans did the same
> to each other it still wasn't a horiffic thing to to. It also does not
> make it any more right that either of the events happened.
>
> -ed
>
What would you do if your ass was against the wall?
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:12:14 -0700
David Brown wrote:
>
> GreyCloud wrote in message ...
> >> >
> >> Disease wiped out more Natives Americans, then anything else.
> >
>
> Although the New Americans were quick to help with the diseases too. A high
> proportion of Native Americans are badly affected by milk - it reduces their
> immunities to a number of diseases. Yet American authorities continued to
> practically force-feed Native American children with milk long after they
> knew this. The authorities could pretend to be pro-Native American by
> providing free milk, while encouraging their demise.
>
> >Yes, small pox just about wiped them out. The disease came over from
> >Europe.
> >
And I read in one health article that its not a good idea for Native
Americans to eat chicken eggs either. It causes a higher incidence of
prostate cancer.
--
V
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Will MS get away with this one?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:09:58 GMT
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
<snip>
> That is impossible. Apple makes hardware; you can't be predatory in a
> software market if you are only making money selling hardware. Apple
> has always had a great balance between compatibility and proprietary
> value-add, I think.
>
<snip>
Isn't it suprising how quickly Apple supporters (in particular) have
forgotten Apples past "dirty tricks"?
Remember the hard-sector disks that Apple kept using for years after
everyone else (almost) had ditched them? They were a neat way of copy
protection.
While I'm on that subject, remember their other trick of burning a
microscopic hole through a floppy to produce a guaranteed error at a fixed
position on the disk? The software wouldn't run without that error... (I
can't guarantee that this actually happened, but I did read about it
somewhere)
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:15:27 -0700
"Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" wrote:
>
> "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
> >
> > Well, let me throw this one at you, how do you feel about the fact that
> > here in America, somebody under 21 can buy a gun and serve his country,
> > but he/she can't even walk into a friggin' bar and order a beer? Where's
> > the American freedom there?
> >
> > I've heard several Canadians talk about warning people who take a trip
> > into America about how to act with the police: be extremely obsequious.
> > In Canada apparently, the police act as a force that exists to help you,
> > they are friendly, courteous, helpful etc. They don't automatically
> > assume you are guilty of a crime like here in the states. American
> > police are seen as jack-booted thugs who have stop and search your car
> > if they feel like it, without a warning.
> >
> > If anywhere should be put on the pedestal of freedom, it should be
> > Denmark.
> >
> > So while I do have a certain amount of pride in this country, part of me
> > is pissed off as hell about the apathy people display when they tout the
> > "freedom" of America when that's not entirely the case.
>
> Also, atleast the Danish actually exercise their democratic right by
> actually voting! I would be disgusted at the number of people who turned
> out to vote in the US election.
>
Most of them feel its a lost cause. A lot of the poor see no difference
in their lot after voting. A lot say there is no difference between a
Republican and a Democrat...
it's business as usual.
I'm more interested in the local issues that affect me so I do vote.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
