Linux-Advocacy Digest #233, Volume #35 Thu, 14 Jun 01 12:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Dan Pop)
Re: Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish) (flatfish+++)
Re: Here's a switch for a change (baho-utot)
Re: Linux freindly ISPs?
Re: XP - what's for me? (baho-utot)
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? ("Donal K. Fellows")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... ("Chad Myers")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Chad Myers")
Re: So what software is the NYSE running ? ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Chad Myers")
Re: So what software is the NYSE running ? ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Chad Myers")
Re: So what software is the NYSE running ? ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Chad Myers")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Pop)
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: 14 Jun 2001 14:57:54 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Fox) writes:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Maynard Handley) writes:
>
>> I still don't see how cloning the disk solves my problem.
>> I don't want an IDENTICAL copy of machine A on machine B. After all,
>> machine A is running an OS from 2 yrs ago on a CPU from 4 yrs ago. I want
>> a "conceptually" identical copy, but with the OS and hardware targetted
>> bits replaced. This means doing the right thing with all the pre-loaded
>> apps along with shared material like fonts and DLLs plus, of course, the
>> registry.
>
>Cloning the disk does solve half the problem, because the new hardware
>is always backwards compatible. Follow the cloning with a conventional
>operating system upgrade and your problem is solved.
Operating system upgrades are usually supported for incremental upgrades,
i.e. from version m.n to m.n+1. If the old system is old enough, an OS
upgrade may no longer be an option.
Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, IT Division
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mail: CERN - IT, Bat. 31 1-014, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:19:30 GMT
On 13 Jun 2001 12:25:09 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
wrote:
>Firstly, in the past few days I've tried Redhat7.2 from a Magazine
>cover and I'm dissapointed.
I think you mean 7.1, but whatever. FWIW 7.1 was the only one that
worked on my ThinkPad.
>If this is typical of RH these days then Flatty has a point!
I never used to like RH due to many gotcha's with misnamed libraries,
screwed up path statements and so forth. SuSE has been my favorite up
until the laptop, with Mandrake a close second.
RH has gotten very good though and I was impressed with this 7.1
version.
>RH7.2 bombed on the gui setup, not finding the same video card that
> RH4.2 did in 1997!
>Then it bombed on the text mode install!
That was the experience that I had with the other distributions, but
RH found and correctly configured the card on the Laptop.
The biggest kicker is with some of them THERE IS NO WAY OUT of the
damm thing except maybe leaving X out and installing later.
Example: Mandrake 7.1 has a mind all of it's own on install and others
have noticed this as well. I select "expert" mode and "text" at the
boot screen, but yet the machine still probes hardware and sets up the
X system incorrectly. If you select boot to gui it's all over with and
you can't do a thing. Killing the Xserver just puts it into a loop and
I can't even log in on an alternate console. Sometimes CAD doesn't
even work and power off is all that works.
If I choose cli mode at boot and go to manually configure X, it
appears there are 2 versions of the program, one for 4.0 and one for
3.x and if I choose to switch for 3.x to 4.x (it asks you if you want
to), the machine goes abortive at that point screwing up all kinds of
things.
My point is in the effort to make things easy for the newbie, the
install program is botched.
SuSE did similar things using Yast or Yast-2 at install time.
>I tried Turbo Linux, and that bombed too, resulting in a non
>install.
I couldn't even get the diskettes I had to create (boot) to boot with
TurboLinux. All I got was "boot failure" message and I tried several
different ones.
>Egads, commercial variants have a very Microsoft feel to them
>these days, woe is me :(
True for better or worse.
When it works it's nice, but when it fails good luck.
Last time I tried Debian was with Corel Linux, which was loosely based
on Debian.
I may be the only person on the planet that had Corel install
perfectly on my system (not the laptop, it dies on that one).
flatfish+++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: baho-utot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Here's a switch for a change
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:22:32 GMT
Greg Cox wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, baho-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > Greg Cox wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > says...
> > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:37:42 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > "Jim Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >> On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:12:04 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:9frbdu$5ku4u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >> >> > He's demanding to talk to the store manager because Windows wiped out
> > > > >> >> > all of his data which contained some kind of a web based research
> > > > >> >> > project (best I could gather in between screams).
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I'd like to have been there and heard the manager try to explain that
> > > > > not
> > > > >> >> only was his data permanently gone with no chance of compensation but
> > > > > he
> > > > >> >> couldn't have a refund on the software because he agreed to the
> > > > > no-refunds
> > > > >> >> clause in the EULA when he installed the product. - but he could have
> > > > >> >> another copy of the same product in exchange.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > There is no such clause in the EULA, in fact MS offers a 30 day money
> > > > > back
> > > > >> > guarantee on retail software.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> which if you try to collect (on the os that came shipped with your PC)
> > > > >> they refuse, say that you have to collect from the manufacturer of the
> > > > >> PC.
> > > > >
> > > > > The OS that ships with the PC is an OEM, not a retail copy.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you try to bring back your AC Delco radio, I'm sure Delco will likely
> > > > > laugh at you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > In the windows EULA, it says that if you don't agree to it, you should
> > > > return it for a refund, which M$ refuses to pay. If I bought a radio
> > > > which turned out to be a piece of sh!t, I'd return it, but I can't seem
> > > > to do the same thing with windows, why is that Eric?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why is this so hard for people to understand? If you buy Microsoft
> > > software at a retail store and the EULA says you can return it for a
> > > refund then you can return it for a refund either at the store you got
> > > it from or directly from Microsoft. As far as I know no one has ever
> > > been denied a refund in this retail situation. If you bought a computer
> > > that had Microsoft software included with an OEM based EULA then you need
> > > to go to the manufacturer of the computer to get a refund. This is the
> > > exact same situation I was in when I bought my Toyata pickup. It had a
> > > radio as standard equipment. I didn't want it (I wanted a Clarion
> > > radio/CD player instead) and asked for a refund. The dealer not only
> > > said they wouldn't give me a refund for a standard equipment item but
> > > would have to charge me mechanic's time to remove the radio. Do you
> > > honestly believe the manufacturer of my pickup's radio is responsible to
> > > give me the refund if I ask for it?
> > > --
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Why is it so hard for you to understand......
> > I sent by msdos 6.2 disks back to m$ for a refund after contacting them. They
> > gave me an address to send them to and I have heard nothing from them since. When
> > I called them back they told me they don't accept returns. This was for a non OEM
> > version. Now I am out my money and my losedos disks (no big deal on the disks but
> > I WANT MY MONEY) .
> >
> >
>
> You're rightfully pissed if they promised a refund and then withdrew it.
> How long ago was this? Did you see
> http://www.microsoft.com/INFO/NAReturns.HTM and comply with the
> instructions?
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This was 3 to 4 years ago, I have long since switched to Linux/BSD and I won't change
from it for any reason. Windog just isn't good enought
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux freindly ISPs?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:24:41 GMT
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:48:43 +0100, Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi Guys!
>
>Question for the UK linux users here.
>
>Which dialup ISPs are Linux friendly, and which one do you think is the
>best?
>
>I'm moving in to a flat soon and since I have a Linux box, I need a Linux
>friendly ISP, also, cable is not an option.
Almost *all* isps are linux friendly as they have only to stick to
established standards.
You have only to avoid ISPs that use propretary communications protocols.
AOL and prodigy are the only ones I know of.
------------------------------
From: baho-utot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: XP - what's for me?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:26:07 GMT
XP = Xtra Pathetic
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:27:19 +0100
mlw wrote:
> You lack imagination.
You lack foresight. I'd keep a count around if I needed it and avoid an
O(n) scan every time I wanted the number of set bits...
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Actually, come to think of it, I don't think your opponent, your audience,
or the metropolitan Tokyo area would be in much better shape.
-- Jeff Huo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:21:40 -0500
"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Said drsquare in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:17:23
> > > > >On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 06:11:22 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > > > (T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > > > >>Said drsquare in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:10
> > > > >>>On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:24 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>AFAIK, you are the only one to mention saluting anything.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>You knew what he meant.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Yes, I did. Did you know what I meant? That seems more doubtful.
> > > > >
> > > > >Not if you continue to word things so badly.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry if you're insulted, but I have to point out that the problem
> > > > is on your end. You are confused and muddle-headed. That is not my
> > > > fault. It is, however, my problem, and I will try to help. Ask
> > > > questions, and stop avoiding logical fallacies.
> > > >
> > > > Here, this might help: http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.htm
> > > >
> > > > [...]
> > > > >In Holland they get personal freedom. Unlike the US.
> > > >
> > > > Please explain.
> > >
> > > Drugs, alcohol, sex; things are MUCH more libertarian (freedom) in
> > > Denmark than in the US. It's all about personal responsibility.
> >
> > And pedophilia.
> >
> > -c
>
> You say something like pedophilia and say nothing to back it up?
I'm sorry, I'm talking about Holland, not Denmark. I missed the Denmark
part, I though you were still talking about Holland.
I think I need some more coffee...
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:25:41 -0500
"Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <iXxV6.26576$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> >"Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> In article <3b2612aa$0$94313$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chad Myers
wrote:
> >> >
> >> >"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ed Allen
> >> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> > wrote
> >> >> > on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:01:16 GMT
> >> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> >> > >In article
> >> >> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> >> > >GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>Chad Myers wrote:
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> It's pretty standard. Anyone who is a militant rabid defender
> >> >> > >>> of something is generally called a <term>inista.
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> -c
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>Therefore, that would make you a Windowinista... Billyinista...
> >> >> > >>Gatesinista....
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > > He goes by the self proclaimed title:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Chad Myers, jerk.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > But I do like the sound of Windowinista...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'm not sure I do; the word sounds like it trips over its own
> >> >> > shoelaces.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Multiple times.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But it does seem to be an appropriate metaphor for Windows, which
> >> >> > doesn't have shoelaces but still manages to trip over them
> >> >> > multiple times...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > :-)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > (Pedant point: how about "Windowsinista"? Still pertty trippy,
though.)
> >> >> >
> >> >> Lets try Windanista.
> >> >
> >> >It's not quite the same. You don't have rabid moronic Windows guerillas
> >> >who set up web sites to flame Linux in the droves that you do the
> >> >other way around. Windows advocates typically like Windows, keep the
> >> >Penguinistas from spreading too many lies, and extol the virtues of
> >> >Windows once in awhile. They have nothing to prove because they
> >> >just want to use what's right. Penguinistas, OTOH, earned the title
> >> >because of their militant and underground nature of attack, propaganda,
> >> >and flame.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Microsoft executives spout an amazing range of lies about linux,
> >> the GPL, free software, etc. etc. These need to be countered.
> >
> >Not really, you just don't like any organization which doesn't
> >kiss Linus' ass. The fact is, Linux really isn't getting adopted
> >in the market, it's still niche, it still has many problems
> >and people know this, no Linux company is even close to making
> >profit, including Red Hat, and most people consider Linux a little
> >toy unix-like OS for when they don't want to pay for Solaris or
> >HP-UX and yet need something similar for testing or whatnot.
> >
> >-c
> >
> >
>
> Kiss ass? Wow, love this tech chat. Linux is certainly getting
> adopted in large amounts across my company, and also, increasingly,
> across the workforce for use at home.
Is it?
> This is a major change
> from a couple of years ago, when linux users were 'geeks like me'.
Not really.
> Now, far less technical people are trying using and enjoying Linux.
Hardly.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: So what software is the NYSE running ?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:34:56 -0500
"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <L8yV6.26582$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >What? Now your just being rediculous. Do you even expect anyone here to
> >believe that your inadaquacies as a computer user have anything to do with
> >the quality of MS software?
> >
> >Would you like me to show you screen shots of a successful deletion of
> >multiple messages?
> >
> By now most of us have memorized the approved responses to expect
> from you. First blame the user as demonstrated by Bill himself in
> this interview:
[SNIP: more masturbatory bullshit from Ed]
The fact is, millions of users out there (hundreds that I have
personally seen) have used Outlook for simple things like this
and have never had a problem. I have installed hundreds of
Outlook installations if you count OL97 - OL2000 and I have
never ONCE seen any problem deleting multiple emails.
In fact, on many occasions, I was backing up a user's mailbox
and was copying their email from the server to a local PST file,
then deleting them off the server. I had to delete several
thousands of emails at one time and I've never seen a hiccup.
I'm sure you could ask a sample of 100 Outlook users (any version)
and 100 of them will tell you that they've never encountered this
problem.
Either he's making it up, or he has a really, really screwed up
OL or Exchange install.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:32:14 -0500
"Anonymous" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I would view any numbers concerning market
> share of Linux compared to Windows with great
> skepticism. How can IDC or anyone else possibly
> know about all the RedHat systems I installed
> in my home?
Who cares what you run in your home. We're talking about
real businesses making critical decisions that effect their
bottom line. It appears that they don't chose Linux.
> I downloaded all the software
> off of a mirror site and installed them on all
> 5 of my machines in my house.
Again, who cares?
-c
> Jon Johansan wrote:
> >
> > http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=21403
> > or
> > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2772060,00.html
> >
> > But they both say the same thing:
> > Gartner Dataquest has reported that 8.6 percent of server shipments in the
> > U.S. during the third quarter of 2000 were Linux-based and 97% of those were
> > Red Hat. Another interesting finding was that when so-called "white box," or
> > non-branded, server purchases were excluded and only branded server
> > purchases considered, Linux's share of the market fell to just 6 percent in
> > the third quarter of 2000.
> >
> > IDC claims a higher figure in previous reports, 27%. But IDC considers ANY
> > PC which has Linux installed on it a "Server Environment." Obviously that
> > stretches the definition a bit.
> >
> > Yes, I know the study was partially sponsored by MS (someone has to pay for
> > these things) so please don't fire off stupid replies implying that MS
> > purposely contaminated it's own results by 'buying the study' - that's just
> > preposterous. Consider when car companies pay someone like JD Powers to
> > guage customer satisfaction - the company that paid for the survey does NOT
> > always come out on top and that's why people trust JD Powers. Same for both
> > IDC and Gartner. They are paid by _someone_ to find something out. If the
> > results don't go your way then, sure, it's ok for you to not publish them
> > (Ford pays JD Powers to find out if people like the Explorer and it turns
> > out they don't - no need to buy Superbowl time to advertise that - but if
> > they did like it, of course you advertise it - it's normal and is done all
> > the time). So, ahead of time, ANYONE who says "MS paid for it therefore they
> > said whatever MS told them to" is automatically defined as an idiot and
> > mindless so don't fall into that hole oK?
> >
> > Further Quote: [Donn] Miller [of MS] told eWEEK that Microsoft had helped
> > sponsor the study to see exactly who was using Linux, what the server
> > deployments were and what operating system was running on it.
> > "There has been a lot of hype around Linux over the past year, and we wanted
> > to try and find out the real story on its adoption," he said. "While I admit
> > there has been interest in Linux, this by no means accounts for one out of
> > every four new servers sold. That is simply ridiculous."
> >
> > The study results prove that Linux on the server side is still "just a niche
> > play," Miller added. It's unrealistic to look at sales numbers and believe
> > that all of these are being deployed. While many users have bought Linux to
> > try it out, a large number of those copies bought, downloaded and acquired
> > were tested and then never actually used, he said.
> >
> > "Many of our customers have tested it, but found that it falls short of what
> > is required for a business server platform," Miller said. "Windows has good
> > penetration on the server side, but the misstated Linux market share figures
> > unfairly present the actual position of Novell and others rather than us."
>
> --------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==-------
> Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server
> -----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So what software is the NYSE running ?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:37:19 -0500
"Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g8sol$97n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:3b278987$0$94309$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9g6d1g$akm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Yeap, by all means, please post it. What I am saying that if Microsoft
> are
> > > going to go out on tangents and offer services such as email, do a
> descent
> > > job of it!
> >
> > Top posting is really annoying.
> >
> > I'm still flabbergasted that you haven't figured out how to do a multiple
> > delete.
> >
> > Click an email, hold SHIFT, click another email 15 emails away (or
> > more, or less). hit the DEL key. It's THAT simple. I do it every
> > day. I've done it with 2 emails, I've done it with >1000 emails.
> > It works every time. It worked in OL97, it works in OL2000.
> >
> > I don't know what you're smoking, but it must be really bad stuff.
> >
> > -c
>
> Hello? issue? hello? its still out there in the wilderness, still left
> unanswered.
The fact is, no one else has encountered this. I have never seen it
in hundreds of installs, and it's never been reported anywhere else.
Like I said, either he's lying, or they have a really screwed up
installation.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:28:00 -0500
"JS \ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On 12 Jun 2001 13:05:10 -0500, "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> On 12 Jun 2001 11:48:13 -0500, "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Yes, I know the study was partially sponsored by MS (someone has to
> pay
> > >for
> > >> >these things) so please don't fire off stupid replies implying that MS
> > >> >purposely contaminated it's own results by 'buying the study' - that's
> > >just
> > >> >preposterous.
> > >>
> > >> Not at all preposterous, given their past history of sponsoring
> > >> "flawed" studies.
> > >
> > >Such as? Please don't insult us by saying "Mindcraft" as the two
> subsequent
> > >retests proved such claims as false and misleading.
> >
> > Mindcraft.
> >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> At any rate there's a more accurate measure of linux's market share:
> > >> Microsoft does not launch all-out attacks against niche operating
> > >> systems that present no threat to Windows. That they're willing to
> > >> risk so many lies says so very much about their desperation.
> > >
> > >That's an opinion which I only partially agree with. However, even if MS
> > >considers Linux a threat - that does not equal server shipments or mean
> that
> > >the figures given by Gartner are inaccurate.
> >
> > No, but it gives good reason to be suspicious when three independents
> > (IDC, AllNetResearch, and NetCraft) come up with a higher set of
> > figures, and a survey sponsored by MS in the midst of a disinformation
> > campaign comes up with very much lower numbers.
> >
>
> I wasn't aware that netcraft was counting physical servers. When did that
> start happening?
> The way they count has nothing to do with server market share.
> No more than counting houses shows the amount of cities.
Since when has accuracy or truth mattered to Netcraft?
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So what software is the NYSE running ?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:36:18 -0500
"Colin Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> >
> > Usually, it says something about a file being used by another patch.
> >
> > I've seen others flash up about how it couldn't execute a command or
> > script or something. They just flash by in the countless lines of
> > useless crap output it displays as its hosing the OS and blowing away
> > and hope of ever booting again.
> >
>
> Ever try redirecting standard error to a floppy?
Why should I have to? No I have to do even more things to ensure
that the broken patch manager in Solaris does its job correctly.
Next, I suppose you'll tell me that I should just do it all by
hand (copy the files, compare the file dates, etc).
That's the Unix way right? Spend countless hours what takes
minutes in Windows.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:31:26 -0500
"Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Yes, but at the same time, it's not clear what it will be running. The thing
> > we really need to see is a survey of what operating systems businesses are
> > running today. The survey would have to include companies of different size
> > and different markets (etc, etc.) so that variations could be factored in.
> > As you point out, just looking at what OS machines were shipped with isn't
> > necessarily valid, especially in the case of server shipments.
> >
> > -- Mike --
> >
>
>
> Also, most Linux users are DYI people who build their own computers so
> that they have absolute control over what goes into it, and when the
> shit hits the fan, how to fix it. Hence, one cannot always get the
> correct figures when counting the number of Linux "shipments" vs. the
> number of Windows "shipments".
Oh yes, this "Enterprise Linux" running on a bunch of home-grown
boxes. I'm glad I'm not an employee of one of those companies. I'd
have to use my stock options as toilet paper because it'd be cheaper.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:30:06 -0500
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Stuart Fox wrote:
> >
> > "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Jon Johansan wrote:
> > >
> > > [big snip]
> > >
> > > One thing I noticed about our colo facility was that we have 12 rack mount
> > > Linux boxes. Every last one shipped with Windows 95 installed on it.The
> > vendor
> > > wanted more to ship it with Linux than with obsolite versions of Windows
> > 95.
> >
> > Which vendor ships rack mount Windows 95 boxes? This seems a little
> > optimistic?
> They had obsolete Windows licenses, but wanted more money to install Linux on
> it. We decided to let them put Windows 95 on it, so they could test it or what
> ever, and we would put Linux on it.
But you said they were rack-mount boxes. Which company is selling rack mount
boxes that gives you a choice of Win95 or Linux as the OS?
-c
------------------------------
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