Linux-Misc Digest #362, Volume #18 Sun, 27 Dec 98 00:13:09 EST
Contents:
Re: Embarrassingly dumb questio (Jerry Lynn Kreps)
Time Synch (David Steuber)
Monitor Flashing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: XFree86 and Intel i740 graphics card (John Minear)
Re: ln: Musty smell to its man page (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: UMAX Astra 1220P Scanner ("John Heuser")
Re: SuSE or RedHat ? (Paul Lew)
execute a script copied from dos filesystem? (Paul Lew)
Debian Install: Where did my support aha152x scsi driver go ? (Nick Dreyer)
Re: cpio-2.4.2 and Linux (Nick Dreyer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jerry Lynn Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Embarrassingly dumb questio
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:16:35 -0600
Charles Mosher wrote:
>
> Apropos is damn useless. One is limited to the key words the authors see
> fit to use as such. I am used to having documentation in clear text, and
> being able to see what files in a directory include any words of my
> choice, and then have the computer jump to them and read them, ie, scan
> all the words in the files themselves, not just what some "expert" thinks
> are the key words.
I agree.
>
> Where is the master index to the man files, so that one can read them,
> starting at the beginning, and stopping when one gets to the end,
> rather than just groping a round?
If you want them on-line then run an X windows client, open an virtual
terminal and enter the command xman and press the return key.
>
> What is the tool with which one can edit/repair the grammar, spelling, and
> nomenclature in the man files, to make them intelligible?
Volunteers work fast, sometimes too hasty and most don't have Ph.D's.
>
> Also, would folks please refer to applications by FILE name, please. I
> think man requires a single word for its argument. I very much doubt that
> "Midnight Commander" is the file name of that shell.
The "Midnight Commander" is called up by mc on the command line or in an
X window virtual terminal box. Unless, or course, you've iconized it
and dropped it onto your X Windows client desktop. I use KDE, and every
important app is an icon on my desktop.
>
> Where are the HOW-TOs? What is the correct capitalization of HOW-TO, so
> that find can find them?
It depends on the distribution you are using.
I am using SuSE 5.3 it they are found under /usr/doc/howto
> Where is a TREE command?
It is called "du" (disk used)
$ du > file_list
$ sort -n file_list
or
$ du | sort -n > file_list
or
$ du | sort -rn > file_list (for reverse sort order)
Then, you can
$ lpr file_list
to get a printout.
As a 57 year old newbie to Linux, who also had "computer science" when a
"computer" was 4,000lbs of IBM 402 Tabulator fed cards punched up with
the 540 Gang Punch and sorted through a Sorter whose model name I can't
remember any more, let me recommend a book by Matt Welsh called "Running
Linux 2nd Editon", from O'Reilly & Associates.
I've only got an MS in biochemistry, so it's been easier for me... ;->
>
> From reading some of the HOW-TOs I though there was a convention that one
> would use upper case for DOS commands like FDISK an lower case for linux
> commands like fdisk, but people so not seem to be following this.
Everything is a file on Linux and is case sensitive. The name of a file
(command) depends on what the author named it when he/she wrote it. A
file is an executable if it is a shell or a compiled program and is
marked as executable by having the one's bit set in its attributes mask
for the owner, group or user.
> At least in MS-DOS I could start reading HELP at the beginning (HELP alt
> help how to use help) and proceed to the end, and then stop, and could use
> a hex editor to look inside the HELP.HLP file to read all the command line
> tails that would be recognized that Microsoft did not tell us about, and
> then check them all out too. In about a day of reading, one could get a
> fair idea of what DOS is about.
>
> What is the hex browser/editor provided?
Usually you don't need a hex editor. Most files and shell programs are
ascii and edited with any old editor available. "pico" is an easy to
use editor to begin with. Power users are into "vi" or "emacs". I
prefer the latter, but that is a religious thing.
>
> What is the equivalent of DDT in Linux.
>
> What is the equivalent of DM (Director Maven)? ProFind? List?
Midnight Commander (mc) does all of these.
>
> Where is the files list of a distribution, with their descriptions, at
> least token but useful descriptions? Someone in one of these linux groups
> responded to a newbie's asking for what the first level subdirectories
> were for by saying /dev was for devices, etc. An insult.
It wasn't an insult, man, so don't take things so personal. "/dev" *is*
for devices, and I imagine that the rest of the response was sincere
also. It sound's like you're reaching a high frustration level. This
is to be expected. Your changing paradims, and shift happens. Plus,
like me, you learned Windows when you had a 10% more gray cells. Now
that you are older, it takes more time for fewer cells to do the same
work.
When you set up a windows system, if it wasn't preinstalled for you by
the vendor, you were asked where you wanted to install Windows if not
the default location. Most apps followed the same pattern. While Win95
was installing itself it created some directories under itself which are
somewhat standard, but beyond that the Windows file structure can be
what ever the user wants it to be. Linux is the same way. Some
distributions favor one schema and some favor another. Also, in Linux,
you have the ability to install various directories on different
partitions of your HD's, so that you can mount them and unmount them for
maintainence and testing while still keeping the root and the rest of
the directories mounted and accessible. Also, Charles, there has been a
movement afoot in recent months to standardize the directory tree, if
not the partitions and their sizes. Newbies have a tendency, like I did
on my first RH 5.0 install, to put everything under one partition, root
(/), and create the somewhat standard directories:
/
/bin
/dev <-- where the system maintains bindings to hardware devices,
etc...
/etc
/home <-- subdirs include each user's own dir, on most distros
/lib
/mnt <-- subdir's include cdrom, dosc, dosd, floppya, etc...
which are linked to devices in /dev
/opt <-- not on all distro's but common.
/sbin
/tmp <-- temp storage. Get's cleaned out on some systems on every
reboot.
/user
/var <-- usually contains log files and other system messages ("dmesg")
>
> At least in DOS one puts an application in a particularly directory, and
> there it is.
You can do the same thing in Linux. I do all the time. However, as I
continue to learn I see the wisdom of putting some files in bin and
others in sbin, etc, and installing apps under /opt. But then, I also
have a second drive, /d435, where I have put Applix Office99, and lots
of my programing and PostgreSQL stuff. What every I want, where every I
want. Who knows, maybe the standards committe will arrive at a standard
file structure that will make the most number of people happy (never
all) in our lifetime.
> Unfortunately linux is like Windows, in that the stuff is
> thrown in all together, so that it is hard to blow away one's mistakes in
> choosing what to install.
Only if you want it that way. I *never* accepted default names and
directories, especially for M$ tools. Gates wanted you to install VC++
six leveles deep under directories with 250 character names. A real
speed trap. I used names like VFP6 instead of
/Windows/Programs/VisualStudio97/common/VisualFoxPro6... etc...
Actually, when you get a feel for the "rpm" program (RedHat Program
Manager), which is an automatic install - uninstall - update utility, it
is as easy as you want it to be. I use the SuSE 5.3 distro. It has a
program called YaST that is a marvel and wonder. I add and remove
software and change configurations on a whim, when ever I want, because
the task was made so easy by YaST. But, now that I know 'tar' and 'rpm'
I could do the same with either of those packages or their X windows
children.
> The wonderful secure path of linux is a trap.
A safety trap, perhaps.
> I keep a minimum path in DOS, and start everything with DOSKEY macros or
> batch files, and have no problems with this.
Do the same in Linux. Change your key bindings to suit your self in
your /home/yourname/.profile and write some simple text shell files
(they start with #!bash as the first line, and include commands that you
would normaly use at the command line to start your app. Don't forget to
end your exec command with an"&" to give you back your keyboard. Just
like batch files.
>
> The list goes on and on. I have had RedHat 4.1 installed for a month, and
> nothing is set up, because most of the documentation is _so_ bad. The
> howto for printers (which I could read off the CD from DOS) says I have to
> add a statement saying thus and so, for example, but they neglect to say
> into what file. I have not yet succeeded in reading a howto in linux.
>From the command line enter
su
and press return. Then enter the root password. This takes you to root.
Now, enter
updatedb
and press enter.
When it gives you the command line back, type exit and press return.
This will cause you to leave your root terminal and return to your
terminal. Now, you can locate any howto by entering
locate how-to
and press return. Or, enter a piece of it's name:
locate serial
to find the how-to's on serial stuff.
If too much scrolls by too fast then use
locate how-to | more
to give a pagefull at a time.
By the way, you can also hold the shift key down and press the pageup
and pagedown to scroll forward or backword through any lists, or the up
and down arrrows to see previous commands, etc. Even more powerful than
DOSKEY or ALIAS or HISTORY.
On May 9th I purchased a book from Sam's Publishing called "Learn Linux
in 24 Hours" by Bill Ball. It had a CD distro of RH 5.0 in the back. I
scandisked and compressed my HD and used Partition Magic 3.0 to break
off an 800MB partition. Then I stuck the CD into my drive and, because
my Sony VAIO has a bootable CD, RH 5.0 Install started right up. It
asked me to choose a monitor, a mouse, a user name and password and to
choose an XF86 configuration and a sound card, and later a printer. I
did and let the pgm finish it's work. When it was done I had RH 5.0
running without a hitch, printer an all. I continued reading the book
and playing with the system. At 57 I've lost a lot of my smarts so it
probably took me 30 to 40 hours to "learn" Linux. I installed KDE beta
4.0 when it came out and fell in love with it, a windows GUI that is
what Win98 is supposed to be. Free, no less! Then I read about RH 5.2
and since my son had purchased a Dell 350 monster he didn't have a need
for his old AcerAcros P75. When I suggested he upgrade the RAM and HD
and put Linux on it, he did. Now, his P75 has 128MB of RAM and a 5.1GB
HD and RH 5.2 installed on it exactly the way 5.0 did on my Sony. Now,
his AcerAcros has a new life. It screams! The HD is so fast that it
doesn't pop like popcorn, it makes a soft hiss, like a gas leak.
Then, in November, I read about SuSE 5.3 and the fact that it came with
KDE 1.0 automatically installed. So, I ordered it and installed it. A
beautiful distro!
> I already have 4 Unix books and one linux book, have read them _all_, and
> fairly well studied most of them, and regularly check the indexes of books
> at the bookstore for help on these questions, and find nothing.
Strange. I've done the same thing and found 6 books that have answered
ALL my questions, including the ones relating to C++ programming in the
X client environment.
I identified them by ISBN in response to another's question earlier
today.
Gee, Charles, don't give up. I wouldn't want to have people think the
old axiom was correct: you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Not only is this old dog learning new tricks, he's having a blast in the
process!
Jerry
> It is the very limited and shoddy documention of Windows 9x that has
> driven me to try linux, and my experience so far is not encouraging. I
> have been reading these linux groups for several months now, and again,
> what I read is not encouraging.
The constant crashing and costly "upgrades" paying for Bill Gate's bug
repairs did it for me. Don't let the attitude of some of the Linux Holy
Jihad Warriors get to you. When you consider that Linux has grown by
212% and has nearly 10 million *known* installed systems, it isn't even
a minute fraction of those using Linux that leave their messages here on
comp.os.misc. Any why would most people drop a message on this newgroup
to report good news? It's only people who have problems, and those
willing to take the time to help, that frequent this group. And, those
that want to stay on the bleeding edge, like me, or contribute, like I
hope to do, soon.
>
> I will flush RedHat 4.1. I bought several distributions today (The Walnut
> Creek 6 CD set), which I will try, but I am not optimistic.
An old man was sitting on a bench at a train station when the train
arrived. A traveler got off, approached the old man, and asked how
friendly the people in the town were. The man asked how friendly the
people were in the town he had left. He said not very friendly. The
old man replied, "they won't be any friendlier here, either." A few
minutes later another traveler walked by and asked the old man the same
question. He asked the travel the same question and the traveler
replied, "that was a very friendly town! I will miss it." The old man
replied, "this is a very friendly town, you will enjoy it!"
I'm afraid, Charles, you will meet your expectations.
> Sorry to dump on you folks, but the mood in these groups has gotten to me.
Don't let it. Not every one visiting these groups are religious
maniacs or walter middies looking for a fresh victim to stroke their
ego.
> I am not a dummy, I do things in DOS that many people think are
> unbelievable, my PhD is as a microwave tube engineer, and I took my first
I believe that. I started my PhD program three times, 1980, 1987 and
1995. The first two times I couldn't make up my mind which area I
wanted to do research in. Everything was so interesting. The third
time Chemistry and biology no longer interested me and they were too
dangerous (some of the chemicals I used in my MS program turned out to
be carcenogenic with 20 year half-lives) and, I realized that I wasn't
smart enough for math or phyics PhDs. So, I went back to pounding
keyboards.
> computer course in the 1956-7 school year, but I am finding the Linux
> documentation too much of an uphill battle. It was the third parties that
> saved DOS for Microsoft, and with Windows9x they effectively blew away the
> third parties. What is left is linux. I wish it were better.
Charles, it is a *lot* better than you realize, at this stage of your
newbieness.
Keep in there. You'll make it! We old codgers have to stick together!
Jerry
------------------------------
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Time Synch
Date: 26 Dec 1998 18:30:34 -0500
I am looking for a little utility that I can run from cron to set the
time on my Linux machine by connecting to port 13 or 37 on a standard
time server on the east coast of the USA.
I've also noticed that I am not running either the daytime (port 13)
or the time (port 37) services. I would like those to start when the
machine boots up. How do I do that?
I have SuSE 5.3 distribution of Linux.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Monitor Flashing
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:28:42 GMT
I ran through the entire compilation of the kernel, and everything
seemed to run smoothly. I changed my lilo to reflect the new change. I did
keep a backup of the old kernel, just in case.
Now, here's what happens. I load up the new kernel. Everything seems to load
up normally, as it did before. I get to the opening screen, which says the
usual bit, including the new version change: (was 2.0.32 before)
Red Hat Linux release 5.0 (Hurricane)
Kernel 2.0.36 on an i586
login:
Now, if I don't type anything, after about 2 seconds, the monitor starts
flashing on and off. I've tried logging in quickly, and I can usually get to
the first prompt after password, but once the screen starts flashing, all
commands are frozen. The only way I could see how far I got was the
cntl-alt-delete sequence, but then it reboots. I figured it's just the X
Windows messing up on me with the new kernel, so I tried a cntl-alt-backspace
to exit out. However, I had changed my inittab file to make it start up in X
Windows every time. So when I try to exit out, it puts me right back in
again. I can't get past that first prompt to get into inittab to change
anything around. Is there anything I can do to stop it and get it back to
normal, or am I going to have to wipe everything away, and just start over
again? Oh, and I tried the old kernel to see if it would boot up that way. No
good. It starts loading up, then gives me a line saying somethign to the
effect of Kernel panic: can't load extended fs, or something like that.
Eric
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: John Minear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,linux.dev.newbie
Subject: Re: XFree86 and Intel i740 graphics card
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:31:06 -0800
Sol Swords wrote:
> Does anyone know how to get this combination to work? I'm assuming this
> is the reason my new intstall isn't working; Linux works fine but I
> can't startX; it gives me an error about "no screens found." I say this
> is probably my problem because I have tried many different options and
> get slightly different results with each, but none actually work.
>
> Thanks very very much for any help
>
> - Sol
I had the some proplem. I have a "Diamond Viper AGP v-500" What I did to
fix the problem was to upgrade to Xfree86 3.3.3 then run xconf.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: ln: Musty smell to its man page
Date: 26 Dec 1998 22:03:12 -0600
In article <763mvu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: > Try the same thing on a file you don't own. I have seen some programs
>
>: I did't own the file, it was owned by root.
>
>Oops. Right. I didn't notice that the first time.
>
>This points out an even worse situation - making the file unreadable
>isn't enough, you have to make it un*find*able by preventing people
>from looking into the directory it is in. That's even worse.
Right. This is based on directory permissions, not the file
itself. But there is a trivial solution if you actually care,
just write your own rm replacement that truncates files before
deleting your link to them. This will break certain things
that count on other links and open files retaining data, but
perhaps that won't affect you.
For single files:
cp /dev/null $1 && /bin/rm $1
should work.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "John Heuser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: UMAX Astra 1220P Scanner
Date: 27 Dec 1998 04:52:42 GMT
Try looking for SANE, Scanner Access Now Easy, at www.linux.org or some
Linux search engine. I know SANE should work with many scanners. Thats all
I know, sorry.
Benoit Lefebvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> Hi, anyone have a program to scan from a UMAX Astra 1220P scanner ?
>
> I tried sane, but it only scan with SCSI scanners, not Parallel
>
>
> Thnx
> --
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> ___/ ___/ _____/ __/ __/
> ____/ ____/ __/ __/ __/__/ Benoit Lefebvre
> __/___/__/ ___/ ___/ ___/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> __/ _/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ ICQ: 858084
> __/ __/ _____/ __/ __/
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Lew)
Subject: Re: SuSE or RedHat ?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 26 Dec 1998 14:17:19 -0800
Usually the basic install is no problem BUT if one includes the
setup/configuration to access the internet and/or local as part
of the "install" process, then there is a big difference. I have
found that RH5.2 and SuSE 5.2 were both easy to install and only
minimally easy to finish the install process as both required their
"manuals" to conplete the installation.
Some modules were not where they were under Slackware which is
a very basic install process and most "docs" and FAQs point to
directories that comply with the Slackware installation of the
files locations. I just redid my SuSE install due to a change
of the harddrive and found that SUSE really didn't look at the
resolv.conf but at whereever YAST (SUSE's admin control menu)
placed them; found this out when looking at the manual and using
YAST to configure the modem (wouldn't init the modem prior to this)
and my pppd and chat script were ignored prior to the use of yast!!
Why both RH and SUSE place some of the modules in other directories
is a BIG mystery as I haven't seen anything anywhere a reason for the
change other than to be "unique" and confuse linux users who wish to
check out different distributions.
On Sat, 26 Dec 1998 07:42:26 GMT, jc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:39:06 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Please help me choose a Linux distribution: SuSE or RedHat ?
>>Particularly, I'm considering:
>>1. Ease of Installation with X, and upgrades too.
>>2. Totally commandline oriented installation -- no X, and upgrades too.
>>3. Stability.
>>4. Minimum patches on new installation.
>I'm not going to give you another lecture, rather, I'm gonna tell you
>my story and let you decide.
>
>The day I got RedHat 5.0, I got it up and running that evening. It
>takes me 7 seconds to load install on CD in dos box. install is
>menu-driven. It's a matter of yes/no/what questions. Menus are
>minimal. I can't pretend that there's no problem w/ RH5. Like it'll
>auto-install X when you want xv w/o your knowledge.
>
>Not until recently I got my hands on SuSE. Gosh! A ton of menus. It
>takes me more time on menus than on actual install. Upside is very
>detailed. But too much for me. I gave up at last.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Lew)
Subject: execute a script copied from dos filesystem?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 26 Dec 1998 14:37:00 -0800
I had copied a linux script into a dos partition for a cdrom when
in winnt; then I copied the script fo linux when in linux mode. The
problem is when I tried to execute the script I get a "no such file
or directory found". The "attributes" of the file was set to be
executable by all and updated only by the user (root).
I was able to change the script's name, copy it to another directory
and rename the script file: I was also able to edit the same file.
Is there anything else in SuSE 5.2 or linux in general that precludes
linux from running a script which it thinks originated from dos??
Fortunately, the script was "ppp-off" which was also found in the
the bowels of the linux docs; this version was able to execute!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Dreyer)
Crossposted-To: linux.debian.user,comp.los.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Debian Install: Where did my support aha152x scsi driver go ?
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:57:14 GMT
After doing a standard install of Debian 2.0.34 from floppy, I used to be able
to get access to my adaptec SCSI card by just adding this line to lilo.conf:
append="aha152x,0x140,11,7"
(then running lilo, of course).
This morning I had to rebuild everything from installation files, and no scsi
drive is now being found.
Should there be a file aha152x.o under /lib/modules for the kernel "appendage"
to work, or does some other configuration file need tweaking?
If I need a aha152x.o module file, what would be the easiest way of getting it
(without recompiling from kernel source package, please !!!)
Thanks for helping. . .
|\|.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Dreyer)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: cpio-2.4.2 and Linux
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 05:04:21 GMT
On 27 Dec 1998 03:22:58 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (F. Heitkamp) wroth:
>I compiled cpio-2.4.2 off of prep.ai.mit.edu
>for my Linux PC. I get messages from cpio
>saying it is truncating inodes. Looking at
>the code I see the inodes want to be 16 bits.
>
>Is this a limitation related to how the data
>must be stored on tape or just a relic of
>16 bit systems? Is this making the tape
>unreadable? Should I worry about fixing it?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Fred
>
That inode limitation appears to be the default behavior. See if your version
of cpio has the -Hcrc command line option. If so, using it will solve your
problem. If not, get a gnu version of cpio.
Good luck
|\|.
------------------------------
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