Linux-Misc Digest #581, Volume #18 Tue, 12 Jan 99 09:13:23 EST
Contents:
Re: cdrom.com (Walter Strong)
/proc/self/map ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: compiler for linux (Edward Hill)
Strange Modem Problem ("James Beauchamp")
Re: Where is the PATH ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: linuxberg: wow (Jason Costomiris)
Re: Linux users group in New Orleans? (Gary Momarison)
Re: Listing directories (easy question....) (djb)
Re: setuid for ppd (Detlef Fenske)
Re: Observations and reservations over BeOS compared to Linux (Sam)
Re: Opinions on Applixware (Peter Cedermark)
Re: LINUS Can Suck My Hairy Cock .. or Newbie Needs Linux Help ... ("Omni˛")
Re: Best Free Unix? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: LINUS Can Suck My Hairy Cock .. or Newbie Needs Linux Help ... ("Omni˛")
Re: 2038 and Linux (Michael Humphries-Dolnick)
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (Jared Johnson)
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (Steve Mading)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Strong)
Subject: Re: cdrom.com
Date: 12 Jan 1999 03:55:37 GMT
Hello.
Has anyone ordered from Walnut Creek (cdrom.com) online? I'm wondering
if I should order the "current" or the "next release" of a particular
package. I take it there might be quite a wait if I select the second.
Thanks.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: /proc/self/map
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:56:37 GMT
Hi,
How can one determine what section (bss, stack, etc.) is being referred to
with /proc/self/maps? How does elf figure in this?
Also, if anyone knows a good reference that describes the /proc system would
you please let me know? I am very new to Linux.
Thanks,
Rebecca Keller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: Edward Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: compiler for linux
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:09:29 -0800
Brandon wrote:
> I have just been informed that I have to have Borland Turbo C
> Assembler program for my Engineering 2 class. I have my laptop setup
> with Linux for compiling stuff. The professor says that if we do the
> programs on our own computers that they have to work on the schools
> computers b/c thats part of the grade. So I need to know if I make a
> program using C in linux and compile with gcc if it would work once I
> put it on a win95 machine? I know that I woul dhave to convert the
> executable from either a.out or elf format to .exe which Win95 uses,
> which I would also need to knwo how to do that.
No you can't, your best bet for fuller flavour would be to
write the code in ansi C on your linux box, compile it, test it
and then copy your source code onto the computer at school and compile
it there.
Of course there are several problems if what you are writing
cannot be achieved in ansi C, such as any operating system, compiler or
hardware specifics.
>
> If compiling it wont allow it to work on a win95 machine using gcc,
> would it be possible to use some sort of Borland program on linux so
> that it will work a win95 machine? ? Which if it is possible I would
> need to know if there is such a program available, hopefully free.
Even if there was a Borland Compiler for Linux you couldn't compile
a windows executable with it.
The great thing about ansi C is its portability.
This means that if you write a piece of code in ansi C on
your linux box with an ansi C compiler then take that
source code to another machine it will also compile on that
machines ansi C compiler. The source code is portable but not the
executable.
>
> The main goal of this is to be able to use my laptop which i
> specifically put linux on it so that i could make programs for school
> and at the same time get away with not having to pay $50 or whatever
> for Borland Turbo C assembler for Win95.
>
There is of course still some hope, not all of the code you
wish to write will prove to be unportable.
Leave or comment out any system calls or such like and
get the skeleton of the program working on your linux box at your
leisure and then get the system or Borland specifics working at
school, ok, its not the best option and if your program involves
alot of it you'll spend most of your time on the machines at school
it depends on the program your writing.
If you have to develop the program on the schools machines I think
you should develop it o your linux machine as well and hand it in with
your original project as an extra credit porting project.
> Member of the Elite Hacker Club
------------------------------
From: "James Beauchamp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Strange Modem Problem
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:43:43 -0500
Hi all.
I am a linux newbie and have just installed RH 5.2 on a p-100 w/32 meg ram.
I have an old external Intel 14.4 modem I am trying to get up and running to
be able to connect to the internet. The problem shows up with Minicom.
When I go
into Minicom and set parameters for my serial port, it does not respond to
requests for attention, dialing, etc. However, and here is where it gets
weird, when I exit Minicom, the screen just sits there, and the modem then
comes to life and tries to dial. i.e. goes on hook, high speed, and you hear
the modem looking for the phone line.
What is causing this???! Any ideas on what I may be doing wrong?
I don't seem to have any conflicts with irq or ioports (cat /proc/interrupts
and /proc/ioports - nothing is listed twice....)
What am I doing wrong. I must have some kind of conflict but don't know
where to start looking.
Thanks In Advance For Any Help :)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Where is the PATH
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:01:26 +0100
This I know... but one thing I'm still wondering about: Where's the path
to my /sbin and /usr/sbin directories...?
They are not in the global .profile or in $HOME/.profile. I saw some entries
in /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit and tried to add /usr/local/sbin - but that had no
effect. Was this the right place to look?
NF Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Depends if you want to do it for all users - in which case /etc/profile
> is the best place; or for only some users - .profile or .bash_profile
> in the users home directory. (Note the dot on the front of the last
> two files).
--
Anders Gulden Olstad @ Brinkley | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RedHat 5.2 Linux kernel 2.0.36 | "Penguins are generally nice creatures"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Costomiris)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: linuxberg: wow
Date: 12 Jan 1999 04:31:46 GMT
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:28:20 -0600,
Codifex Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: That's all very nice. But I wanna know if vile is better than pico?
Uh, yes. Most anything is better than pico.
: --------------B4B29D4FE505781563CCB608
: Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
:
: <HTML>
This isn't the web. Stop posting HTML, please.
--
Jason Costomiris <><
Technologist, cryptogeek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
------------------------------
From: Gary Momarison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux users group in New Orleans?
Date: 11 Jan 1999 10:16:21 -0800
Andy Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Does anyone know if there is a Linux users group in the New Orleans
> area?
Find several lists of LUGs in Gary's Encyclopedia at
http://www.aa.net/~swear/pedia/user-groups.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (djb)
Subject: Re: Listing directories (easy question....)
Date: 10 Jan 1999 19:01:43 GMT
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:28:19 GMT, Mike Moritz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, djb
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>I know this probably sounds silly, but how do you list just the
>>sub-directories in a directory?
>
>try ls -l | grep ^d
>
OK....
[18:44] david ~/docs > ls -ld
drwxr-xr-x 7 david david 1024 Jan 9 23:39 .
a[18:44] david ~/docs > $a ls -l | grep ^d
drwxrwxr-x 2 david david 1024 Jan 9 17:37 FSNews
drwxrwxr-x 2 david david 1024 Jan 10 18:31 Linux-Gazette
drwxrwxr-x 2 david david 1024 Jan 9 21:16 WindowMaker
drwxrwxr-x 2 david david 1024 Jan 1 22:32 backup
drwxrwxr-x 3 david david 1024 Jan 5 23:16 news
Excellent - thanks very much!
I've not used grep very much (not used many linux commands very much...) and
I couldn't at first understand why this worked, so I looked in man. I hadn't
realised there was a 'start/end of line' option. Very useful!
thanks again,
David.
------------------------------
From: Detlef Fenske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: setuid for ppd
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:51:21 GMT
Rick Glunt wrote:
> I have my Linux box setup with a ppp-on and ppp-off script to
> connect/disconnect to my ISP. Scripts were created under root but when I
> try to run them using another user (for security purposes) I get and error
> 'must be root to run /usr/sbin/pppd, since it is not setuid-root'. What do
> I need to do to give access to another user?
Hi Rick,
try to make an new group i.e. ´dialout´.
Set pppd and your scripts to this group.
Set the execute rights to group (chmod 754).
Give the user who should dialout access to the new group.
Viola.
Reguards Detlef
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sam)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Observations and reservations over BeOS compared to Linux
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:30:24 GMT
On 11 Jan 1999 11:08:46 -0800, Gary Momarison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
<snip>
>> I've always maintained that old adage that use whatever is best for the
>> task at hand.
>
>[snip]
>
>If you're totally selfish and short-sighted, that's a good plan, but
>it's often better to exercise some temporary self-sacrifice to achive
>a better result down the road and not get yourself entrapped in a
>solution that will cost yourself and others dearly.
>
>Example: All those dopes (or dupes) that bought Win 3.1 instead of
>Mac or NeXT or some other Unix, because they could run their old
>DOS crapware on it. They solved their problems temporarily on the
>cheap but have cost themselves billions by firmly entangling
>themselves into continued use of M$'s unreliable sorta-OSes.
Are you serious? At the time of Windows 3.0 there were no serious
contenders for MS on the desktop.
Next was far too expensive and aimed at the Educational market.
Mac's, old argument, too expensive and slow at the time with not
enough software, At that time Lotus 123 and dbase were king.
What else? Linux was either not around , or just a bit of code in
Linus' head.
It was a wise choice at the time. That lead to Win3.1 then Win3.11 for
workgroups, Win95 and history.
>Read http://www.essential.org/antitrust/ms/cfa/cfa-jan99.html
>
> "The Consumer Cost Of The Microsoft Monopoly:
> $10 BILLION OF OVERCHARGES AND COUNTING"
>
> A report by the Consumer Federation of America, Media Access
> Project, US Public Interest Research Group, January 1999
Crap, they are comparing Win98 to Dos.
Why is OEM Win98 cheaper or comparable in price to every other
commercial OS ?
Even Larry Ellison says that Windows2000 is the biggest SW project in
the history of the world. The OEM price will be quite cheap.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:55:03 +0100
From: Peter Cedermark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Opinions on Applixware
ApplixWare is considerably faster than StarOffice, which takes 30-40 seconds to
start on my P2 300 MHz. Once it's up and running, though, the speed is okay.
Jim Heffner wrote:
>
> This sounds promising. Overall, how is the performance? SO 5.0 has a
> tendency to CRAWL, depending on what you're doing...even with 96MB RAM installed.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> Peter Cedermark wrote:
> >
> > I use ApplixWare 4.1 at school and it works great. It uses a different approach,
> > i.e. doesn't offer an integrated desktop (which I like). The programs in the
> > suite are very capable and should satisfy your needs. They are on a par with the
> > programs in the StarOffice suite.
> >
> > What I don't know is if there is a capability to import documents from Microsnot
> > Office, but that information is probably available at the company's website.
> >
> > That's my (very brief) opinion...
> >
> > Jim Heffner wrote:
> > >
> > > I've installed Staroffice 5.0, but the maddening registration process,
> > > along with the incredible slowness of the software, have motivated me to
> > > look at alternatives. If anyone who has used Applix (or even both),
> > > could offer their honest opinion, I'd be interested in hearing what you
> > > have to say.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Jim
------------------------------
From: "Omni˛" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: LINUS Can Suck My Hairy Cock .. or Newbie Needs Linux Help ...
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:48:55 +1100
thanks a lot for the time Sean
but I'm outta here
will be deleting this NG
any further linux experience will be a solo affair
Sean Maguire wrote in message ...
>Hehehe..Time for your next lesson. When you don't understand
>a command, type man <command name> and be enlightned
>
>Also, i'd recommand going to the libary and reading a basic UNIX based
>system management book. You need to learn like the basics of how
>Linux works. It's nothing like microsoft products.
>
>
>In article <qD7m2.7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Omni˛ wrote:
>>hoo Fu### ray !!!!!
>>
>>thank you
>>I now have access to my cdrom and floppy
>>
>>thank you :)
>>
>>
>>
>>Gunnar Beushausen wrote in message
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>>>"Omni˛" wrote:
>>>> thanks anyway
>>>> I tried it but it said permission denied
>>>> it even says it when i go to dev/hda
>>>> or cd /dev/hda
>>>
>>>mount /dev/hdb /mnt
>>>cd /mnt
>>>
>>>--
>>>---
>>>Gunnar Beushausen
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>http://www.hof.net/~gbasic
>>>/* GBasic, the revolutionary BASIC interpreter */
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>__________________________
>---
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sean Maguire
>([EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED])
>(ICQ: 1656675) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>---
>_________________________
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Best Free Unix?
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:02:24 GMT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello [EMAIL PROTECTED]
03-Jan-99 18:31:30, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matt Dillon) wrote to All
Subject: Re: Best Free Unix?
Thanks for the very informative article, Matt.
I saved it.
d(D> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matt Dillon)
d(D> :In article <76non9$7d0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
d(D> :Victor Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
d(D> :>Ilya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
d(D> :>
d(D> :>Linux is definitely more popular, deciding from number of
d(D> installations
d(D> :>and number of applications available, but FreeBSD have some
advantages
d(D> :>(and some disadvangages which grow from these advantages)
d(D> :>
d(D> :>FreeBSD provides better throughput for highly-loaded servers,
but if
d(D> :>you want to work interactively, especially in X, Linux has
better
d(D> :>responce time.
d(D>
d(D> I use X under both Linux and FreeBSD and it runs exactly
the same.
d(D> This isn't surprising since both boxes run the same X
server
d(D> codebase
d(D> out of the box (i.e. XFree). Linux has slightly lower
syscall
d(D> overhead
d(D> (at least when nothing needs to block), but this is in the
realm of
d(D> microseconds and irrelevant for someone doing interactive
work.
d(D> There is
d(D> no tangible difference in regards to interactive response
times for
d(D> a machines configured as a typical workstation. My X
server comes
d(D> up
d(D> instantly either way, and new windows pop up instantly as
well.
d(D> The operational differences between the two systems do not
creep in
d(D> until
d(D> you start working the boxes harder. Each system has a
sweat spot -
d(D> linux
d(D> tends to gear its sweat spot for lightly loaded
environments while
d(D> FreeBSD takes a small (and I believe unnoticeable) hit in a
lightly
d(D> loaded
d(D> environments in order to gear its sweat spot more broadly
across
d(D> more
d(D> heavily loaded environments. The main area where this
comes into
d(D> play is
d(D> with paging: FreeBSD will start to page earlier then Linux
and
d(D> ramps
d(D> up smoothly as the load goes up, and is willing to take a
larger
d(D> page
d(D> fault hit rate then linux in order to better model memory
activity.
d(D>
d(D> Linux can handle heavier loads in certain situations - it
doesn't
d(D> just
d(D> On the otherhand, Linux has been shown to handle heavy
loads
d(D> reasonably
d(D> well in a number of situations, at least as long as it
doesn't have
d(D> to
d(D> page more then moderately.
d(D> This was noticeable 5 years ago because the interrupt/trap
overhead
d(D> was
d(D> a much greater percentage of the available cpu back then.
Linux
d(D> still
d(D> runs better on older systems which have very little (less
then 16MB)
d(D> memory. But once you get past the 16MB mark and a
pentium-90 you
d(D> can't
d(D> really tell the difference. No matter what, though, if you
run X on
d(D> a 486 and compare it side-by-side with X running on a cheap
P-II, it
d(D> doesn't really matter *what* OS you are running on the 486
- it will
d(D> still
d(D> seem extremely slow. Modern expectations play a big roll
in
d(D> satisfaction.
d(D> I might use a 486 to run a couple of servers, but you
wouldn't catch
d(D> me
d(D> dead using one for X any more (linux *or* FreeBSD).
d(D> Linux has better small-systems and laptop support, e.g. in
the realm
d(D> of
d(D> removeable PCMCIA cards and things like that, and having
drivers for
d(D> lots
d(D> of old cards (even though on rare occassions someone will
have to
d(D> run
d(D> FreeBSD to support an old card, the vast majority of these
cases go
d(D> the
d(D> other way). FreeBSD does not pay anywhere near as much
attention to
d(D> older
d(D> cards as it pays to newer ones. PCI cards tend to be clean
enough
d(D> that
d(D> if someone writes a popular driver for one OS it will get
ported to
d(D> the
d(D> other reasonably quickly. Linux's sound support has
always been
d(D> more
d(D> consistant but I believe FreeBSD has caught up there.
d(D> FreeBSD definitely takes the cake when it comes to
supporting
d(D> high-end
d(D> disk I/O. Linux's Ext2fs always seemed faster, but that
was mainly
d(D> comparing the fully-async EXT2F with a semi-synchronous
FFS. People
d(D> who
d(D> run FreeBSD are not usually willing to mount their FFS
stuff async,
d(D> while
d(D> people running linux (including me, which I find rather
amusing)
d(D> tend to
d(D> mount EXT2F async. The reality, though, is that again
FreeBSD is
d(D> gearing
d(D> itself for very heavy load situations where a filesystem
crash could
d(D>
d(D> result in serious corruption if it were async mounted.
Ext2FS has
d(D> no
d(D> problem with crashes as long as you aren't running a
heavily loaded
d(D> machine. I don't know about the most recent Ext2FS
releases,
d(D> though, I've
d(D> heard that the authors are doing serious work on filesystem
d(D> integrity
d(D> issues.
d(D> The whole argument is moot, though, since FFS+softupdates
under
d(D> FreeBSD-3
d(D> beats the holy shit out of ext2fs in providing 99% async
operation
d(D> (and
d(D> even unwinding pending I/O if it is no longer necessary to
do it)
d(D> while at
d(D> the same time guarenteeing on-disk filesystem consistancy
under
d(D> arbitrary
d(D> load conditions.
d(D> Linux has more mature threading capabilities, stuff that
FreeBSD has
d(D> only recently implemented. Linux ripped off the NT
sendfile()
d(D> hacks
d(D> before FreeBSD did (though FreeBSD has that now and
supports a more
d(D> generic interface for it), but I believe that Linux is
farther along
d(D> in
d(D> the work on async I/O then FreeBSD.
d(D> On the otherhand, Linux uses a rather inconsistant
filesystem
d(D> interface
d(D> and does not support files larger then 2G on 32 bit
systems... you'd
d(D> have
d(D> to go to the alpha for that, and even then it isn't used
widely
d(D> enough
d(D> (as far as I can tell) to have the level of testing that
BSD's
d(D> 4.4-based
d(D> filesystem interface has, which is consistantly 64 bits
throughout
d(D> (the
d(D> few people who insist that 64 bit support on native 32 bit
cpus
d(D> somehow
d(D> reduces performance, which is the common argument against
this,
d(D> really
d(D> have no clue as to what they are talking about. Take it
from a
d(D> programmer,
d(D> supporting 64 bit file offsets on a 32 bit machine is not a
big
d(D> deal).
d(D> Commercial application support in linux is better since it
is
d(D> considered
d(D> the 'native' platform. FreeBSD will run most linux
applications now
d(D> but
d(D> it takes a little more work to install them.
d(D> FreeBSD wins on kernel tuning. For example, FreeBSD
implements page
d(D> coloring on a number of its internal caches and Linux still
uses
d(D> many
d(D> more sequential list structures then it should - creating
d(D> scaleability
d(D> problems (again something that you only notice under load
or when
d(D> running
d(D> certain types of software). Generally speaking, FreeBSD
has a huge
d(D> number of such optimizations which is why it has the
reputation of
d(D> being
d(D> able to handle huge loads without falling on its face.
Linux has a
d(D> few,
d(D> but nowhere near FreeBSD. And there is continuing work in
that
d(D> department.
d(D> The FreeBSD paging and VM system is going to get a major
facelift
d(D> after
d(D> the 3.0.1 release, removing yet more linear lists and
replacing them
d(D> with
d(D> either arbitrarily scaleable radix trees or a hash tables.
I think
d(D> that
d(D> the optimizations being made to the paging system after
3.0.1 will
d(D> wipe out
d(D> any advantage Linux has in its VM subsystem when operating
under
d(D> light
d(D> loads.
d(D> -Matt
d(D> --
d(D> Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. &
BEST
d(D> Internet
d(D> Communications
d(D> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Please include original email in any
response)
d(D> -!-
d(D> - Origin: BEST Internet Communications, Inc. www.best.c
(Usenet)
#----------------------------------#
Cheers, George
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
#----------------------------------#
------------------------------
From: "Omni˛" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: LINUS Can Suck My Hairy Cock .. or Newbie Needs Linux Help ...
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:55:00 +1100
your a regular comedian igor
who should audition for TTS
Gergo Barany wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>> 2)turn the power switch off without fucking the system
>
>You're right, turning it OFF will do no harm in DOS. Turning it ON and
>booting DOS is what fucks it up.
>
>Gergo
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Humphries-Dolnick)
Subject: Re: 2038 and Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:56:28 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Vince Conaway wrote:
>
> > Does Linux have the 2038 bug that will make Unix machines start to go
> > nuts around that time?
> >
> > -Vince Conaway
>
> Yes, Linux does have that bug, the only Unix machine that doesn't is Sun
> Solaris version 6, because they have upgraded to a 64 bit kernel
Actually, that would be Solaris 7, not 6 (which did not exist, but 2.6
did.)
Actually, HP-UX 11 is also 64 bit and supposedly fixes the 2038 bug.
--
Michael Humphries-Dolnick
"If opinions are expressed in this communication,
those opinions may not represent those of
my employer."
------------------------------
From: Jared Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:08:40 -0600
hahahahahahahahahaha. don't bother posting to
alt.history.anal-retentives. you should post to something more like
alt.history.grossly.uneducated.uninformed.sheep -- i think you watched
that Ruby Ridge movie way too many times or something. it's sad. People,
throughout history, are assholes. The white man was an asshole, the red
man was an asshole. and the french and the british were assholes. and you
and me....we will probably be considered assholes by our grandchildren's
grandchildren. get over it. i'm not saying that there is no bad guy...i'm
saying that there is no good guy.
mlw wrote:
> Larry wrote:
> > >>The US has never committed genocide. Trying to compare anything
> > >>anything in US history to the Holocaust is just plain absurd.
> > >
> > >The American Indian...case closed.
> >
> > Bullshit! You need to read up on your American history.
> > The poor mistreated savage was responsible for a number
> > of attrocities upon women and children. These were wars
> > where the Indian had a chance to fight back.
>
> The white man came to this continent, negtiated deals with indians,
> totally ignored their own deals, kept taking and taking, the indians
> kept losing more and more land. When people see there world destroyed
> and cities destroyed, how else are they supposed to react?
>
> The indians wanted peace, the white man wanted their land. The war was
> started by the whites for the purpose of killing the indians.
>
> I can beleive this ignorance of history. I have read history books that
> say we won Vietnam. Many history books are mostly wrong. Learning
> history is not paroting what the books say.
>
> >
> > This crap about the poor mistreated red man is bunch of
> > bogus drivel promulgated by the usual history revisionists.
> >
> > Did we take their land? Yep sure did. Was it genocide?
> > Nope sure wasn't.
> Yes, it was. It was systematic policy to wipe out the Indian.
>
> > The indian was just as treacherous as
> > the white man, maybe even more so.
>
> How can you call a people routinely seeking peace treacherous? I suggest
> you find a single instance where a treaty was negotiated by the Indians
> and broken by the indians first. The Indians kept their word. The white
> man broke treaties when ever it suited them. Eventually the Indians
> realized that the white man was out to destroy them, fighting back was
> the only thing they could do. What one does to steal is treachery, what
> one does to defend is defense. It can easily be said that the whites
> consistently racheted up the level of violence.
>
> > The only difference
> > was that they were way out numbered and they really had no
> > war fighting experience of the type needed to win the type
> > of war the White man waged. IF these 2 factors were reversed
> > I guarantee you we would all be living in teepees today.
>
> In all cultures there are renegades, but, by and large the Indians were
> honerable. When fighting a foe that didn't even consider you human,
> their honor was their downfall.
>
> Believe what you will, but, it is sad that the true legacy of the
> original inhabitents of these united states have been so clouded.
>
> --
> Mohawk Software
> Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
> Visit the Mohawk Software website: www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Mading)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: 12 Jan 1999 03:38:43 -0600
Netnerd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: David Steuber wrote in message ...
: >d s f o x @ c o g s c i . u c s d . e d u (David Fox) writes:
: >
: >-> This is such a standard crackpot rant. "Everyone I talk to agrees
: >-> with me, these polls must be full of it." I think it was invented by
: >-> Rush Limbaugh. Its a convenient way to get people to ignore facts.
: >
: >The only fact we have is that someone posted that a consumer poll said
: >that 81% of consumers thought that Microsoft was good for the market,
: >or something. That poster neglected to site the specific poll in
: >question, so we don't even know if such a poll took place.
: Would you believe the publisher was the Consumer Federation of America?
Good. You're halfway toward providing a reference. Now tell
us where to find the write-up of this poll.
--
Steve Mading: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.execpc.com/~madings
------------------------------
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