Linux-Misc Digest #712, Volume #18 Thu, 21 Jan 99 10:13:11 EST
Contents:
Re: mkisofs - how to install? (Eric Potter)
mkisofs - how to install? (Jeffrey Greer)
Re: Microsoft is not alone in the "bloatware" programming race.... (Oded Arbel)
Re: Newbie with WindowMaker problem (Oded Arbel)
Re: Real NEWBIE question: How can I select my PATH (Pierre Daeubner)
Re: i need to crack one icq password... HELP (Troy Davidson)
Re: Linux keyboard? (For emacs use) (Gabor)
Re: IntelliMouse under RedHat (Steve Gage)
Re: Linux keyboard? (For emacs use) (Michael Powe)
Re: Netscape Q: How to make it download in Binary (Mime types - arghhhhhhh!)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: 128 bit Netscape 4.08 built against glibc ("Michael.Creasy")
Re: A newbie versus "vi" (w joseph mantle)
Re: ATI Xpert@Work (Larry)
Re: How to get rid of LILO? (Ivo Naninck)
Re: Can't compile kernel with sound card support, HELP! (jamie)
plp printing (Thomas =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sch=FCtt?=)
Re: Microsoft is not alone in the "bloatware" programming race.... (John Simmons)
Re: Neural Network Applications? (Tom Fawcett)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Eric Potter)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: mkisofs - how to install?
Date: 20 Jan 1999 19:36:52 GMT
[Posted and mailed]
Jeffrey Greer enlightened this group thus:
> Could someone tell me how and where to install mkisofs. I ran
> "configure" then "make install". Now how do I install the
> sucker? There are no directions on installing mkisofs with the
> files it comes with. I d/l'd mkisofs at
>ftp://tsx-11.mit.edu/pub/linux/packages/mkisofs/. I can't find
> directions on mkisofs at
>http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/CD-Writing-HOWTO.html#toc6
> either.
>
If you did "make install" then the executable should have been installed into
the bin directory that is given in the Makefile. You can control this by using
the "--prefix" switch to "./configure" e.g. "./configure --prefix=/usr/local"
followed by "make" and "make install" will install the executable into
/usr/local/bin.
> I'm setting up linux to burn cd's. Doing this seems hopelessly
> complicated. Does anyone have any suggestions for an easy route
> for doing this - E.g. easiest software, front-ends. I have a
> panasonic (matsushita) cd7502b drive.
>
You will also need to install cdrecord. You could also try xcdroast, which is
a front end to mkisofs and cdrecord.
> Is burning cd's under Linux as reliable as burning cd's with
> windows?
>
More reliable, due to the superior multitasking.
> Thanks.
> --
> Jeff Greer, graduating senior, computer science
> www.umr.edu/~jgreer
> University of MO - Rolla
> ------------------------
> FAA license A-27264 (license to jump out an airplane at >= 1000ft AGL)
>
> // "If travelling by plane is 'flying' then travelling by boat is swimming. \\
> \\ If you want to experience the environment, get out of the vehicle." //
--
* ^ \ ___@
*^ / \ \ | \
/ \/ \ \__| \
/ / ^ \ \
/ \ \ Eric Potter
/ ^ ^ \ \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeffrey Greer)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: mkisofs - how to install?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:13:39 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Could someone tell me how and where to install mkisofs. I ran
"configure" then "make install". Now how do I install the
sucker? There are no directions on installing mkisofs with the
files it comes with. I d/l'd mkisofs at
ftp://tsx-11.mit.edu/pub/linux/packages/mkisofs/. I can't find
directions on mkisofs at
http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/CD-Writing-HOWTO.html#toc6
either.
I'm setting up linux to burn cd's. Doing this seems hopelessly
complicated. Does anyone have any suggestions for an easy route
for doing this - E.g. easiest software, front-ends. I have a
panasonic (matsushita) cd7502b drive.
Is burning cd's under Linux as reliable as burning cd's with
windows?
Thanks.
--
Jeff Greer, graduating senior, computer science
www.umr.edu/~jgreer
University of MO - Rolla
========================
FAA license A-27264 (license to jump out an airplane at >= 1000ft AGL)
// "If travelling by plane is 'flying' then travelling by boat is swimming. \\
\\ If you want to experience the environment, get out of the vehicle." //
------------------------------
From: Oded Arbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft is not alone in the "bloatware" programming race....
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:17:27 +0200
I don't have time for a full response, so I'll make it short :
Michael Lee Yohe wrote:
> Fact: Everyone makes bloated applications.
Right.
> that if you put Windows 98 on a machine with limited memory
> (32/64MB) it performs more slowly because it does demand more memory.
Most common people have that amount of memory - But, a minor upgrade
that demends more memory ?
> that goes for all OSes, too, doesn't it?
no.
> From what I understand, Windows 98 adds quite a bit of stuff besides the
> things you stated.
I was generalizin glike you pointed out.
> Opera, a browser that
> can fit on a floppy disk, provides near same functionality as the big
> 25-35MB browsers mentioned before. For me, Opera is lean code and the rest
> is "overbloated".
Right , should I mention Gecko ?
> Windows 98, on the other hand, provides features I _would_ use daily.
> Somethings, of course, I would leave out - but that's the beauty of "Windows
> Setup" in the control panel.
There's a problem here - will someone else point it out plz ?
> Microsoft Office 7/8 (95/97).. 6.0c....The size
> between the two packages is not all that different.
only about 430MB !! office 4.2 comes on diskettes !!
> 97 introduced the new
> "Explorer" look - something _all_ programmers are finding nice and <ehem>
> "user friendly". Each application uniquely ties itself to each other in a
> more subtle manner - something I rather enjoy.
Right .
> you can remain using Windows 95
> without worry of being completely left behind as Microsoft and manufacturers
> abroad are _still_ supporting the OS. And they will for a long time (as
> Windows 3.1 is _still_ being supported).
Did anyone seen a software written specificly for Win3.1 lately ?
> OS/2 was
> problem-prone since in conception. IBM had always been notorious for
> keeping things proprietary in nature - thus failing to produce libraries for
> programmers so that they could easily produce programs and drivers in the
> time frame that everyone desired. OS/2 was IBM's child that Microsoft had
> given up.
Right. bad example. sorry.
> >BTW : you qoute too much. please start cutting only the relevent part
> >to qoute. it's a pain reading replys by you.
> Unfortunately, when people do this - they quote things that they can
> nit-pick at - taking things often out of context.
That's why we have ...THREADS.....
Oded.
------------------------------
From: Oded Arbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Newbie with WindowMaker problem
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:23:55 +0200
Mark Murray wrote:
>
> Oded Arbel wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >........ but it's autoloading, I can't get to
> >it's settings, and I can't find any config file where it says what to
> >load on the dock - How do I remove unwanted dockable apps from my dock
> >??
> >Oded
>
> Some dock apps, when running give you only a small area to bring up their
> menu. I have had some success with the top, left corner - try right
> clicking there first, then all over the icon and maybe the menu will appear.
>
> If this doesn't work, try xkill - its probably on the WindowMaker root menu
> under 'utilities' this will give you a different looking cursor. Click on
> the dock app with it and it should kill it. After it's stopped running you
> should be able to just drag it off into the nether-regions like any other
> icon.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Mark Murray
I can get to the menu !!! it works !! pheww...
BTW: on some dockapps - Xkill woun't work - Y ?
Oded
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:27:35 +0100
From: Pierre Daeubner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Real NEWBIE question: How can I select my PATH
Dr A Medina S wrote:
>
> Help!
cd (stands for change directory)
example: cd /home
--
----
In a world without walls and fances,
who needs Windows and Gates ?
----
------------------------------
From: Troy Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: i need to crack one icq password... HELP
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:25:15 -0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No. To make sure he doesn't jump off the cliff with all of the other lemmings!
Mark Stolz wrote:
> Winston wrote:
> >
> > I heard that to crack the password of an ICQ account, Linux must be used...
> > I need help to do this cos I don't have such equipment. I need to crack the
> > password of ICQ #23961492, user nic VAL.This is urgent... have to know what
> > he is up to before real trouble sets in between us. Please help me!! Thanks
> > a lot.
>
> Uh...yeah...like to head 'em off at the pass or something, right?
>
> --Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gabor)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.misc,comp.emacs,comp.editors
Subject: Re: Linux keyboard? (For emacs use)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:20:55 GMT
In comp.editors, Erik Naggum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :
# * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gabor)
# | Writing evolved the way it has so we can communicate with each other.
#
# when did it stop evolving? how _does_ writing "evolve" to begin with,
# except for people who make small changes that get people like you so very
# upset? remember Noah Webster? the guy who decided that Americans should
# spell it "favor" instead of the French-inspired "favour", etc? he had a
# rough time with people like you, too. yet, his decision prevailed.
#
# | I was implying that it can be viewed as unncessary as well.
#
# you really don't understand what makes something unnecessary, so please
# shut the fuck up.
Ah, your intelligence is mind boggling. You must resort to sentences
like the above to get your point across.
#
# | Why bother. Why even bother with sntences, paragraphs or even words.
# | Just stick letters together as you please and act surprised when nobody
# | understands. :)
#
# funny you should mention that. punctuation and spacing evolved from
# precisely this way of writing, which prevailed for about 100 years. you
# can still find it in early stone inscriptions. various punctuation marks
# have developed over time, as well. @ is a contraction of "ad", & is a
# contraction of "et", the parentheses are fairly recent (and still some
# people hate them, especially in Lisp -- just goes to show that some forms
# of conservativism are hard to pacify).
#
# | What loss might this be? The letter is still the same letter. It hasn't
# | gone on strike and changed its meaning.
#
# so says you, who understand nothing, and continue to understand nothing,
# and likewise continue to create stupid things to attack that nobody has
Whatever you say, Mr. self-righteous.
# ever said or done. such is typical of a certain type of people, and they
# are frequently moralistic religious-conservative hypocrites. as I said,
# it's nice to smoke them out before they do any real damage.
How do you ascertain just whatI am like from a couple of posts? You
must be some mind reader or something. Care to share how you arrived
at the above? Especially since none of it is true.
# | We are talking about natural languages, not programming. Different issue.
#
# some people like to search electronic texts. they would like to find
# proper names when they look for proper names, and not find proper names
# when they do not look for proper names. otherwise, they would have to
# deal with a lot of context analysis to remove false positive hits.
#
You need to be sent SIGTERM!
# #:Erik
# --
# SIGTHTBABW: a signal sent from Unix to its programmers at random
# intervals to make them remember that There Has To Be A Better Way.
------------------------------
From: Steve Gage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IntelliMouse under RedHat
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:14:34 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I'm running linux RedHat 5.1 with an Microsoft IntelliMouse.
> What does it take to get the wheel working?
>
> I'm most interested in Netscape under XFree86, though I wouldn't mind if it
> actually worked in pine/lynx.
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Try the Colas Nahaboo X mouse wheel scroll page:
http://www.inria.fr/koala/colas/mouse-wheel-scroll/
- Steve
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
up.scomp.os.linux.hardware,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.misc,comp.emacs,comp.editors
Subject: Re: Linux keyboard? (For emacs use)
From: Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 20 Jan 1999 13:15:01 -0800
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Sven" == Sven Utcke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Sven> Erik Naggum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> * Sven Utcke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | So I noticed. Strangely
>> enough you still employ capital letters for | the words "I" and
>> "Emacs". Or rather Emacs does, I guess :-)
>> case is an important property of a word. randomly capitalizing
>> words just because they happen to start sentences destroys
>> valuable information about that word. I therefore maintain the
>> case properties of a word regardless of its position in the
>> sentence.
Sven> Alright.
Sven> Although I can't say that I agree with you: a) In English,
Sven> so few words are capitalised at all, that it makes the whole
Sven> thing rather pointless. b) I believe that having capital
Sven> letters at the beginning of sentences makes for a rather
Sven> valuable visual guide in reading.
Of course, it's completely bizarre to assert that following the rule
"capitalize the first word of a sentence" is "random" behavior. It's
not. It's rhythmic and predictable. What's more, as you suggest, it
conveys important information about the text; in combination with the
period, it signals the beginning of a new sentence. Many grammar
rules are designed to make predictable language behavior across a
spectrum, so that users of that language are sufficiently cued to have
an easy understanding.
Some languages, like German, capitalize nouns in general. Some
languages have really confusing rules about capitalization, like
French. "La Française," meaning a French person, but "la langue
française," meaning the French language. Others, like English,
capitalize only members of specific classes of nouns; and keep the
capitalization even when using that noun as an adjective (America and
American pie).
At one time (not that long ago), capitalization of words in English
was more or less at the whim of the writer; and many writers used it
as a means of emphasis. Thus, if you look at documents from the early
19th Century United States, you will see that some nouns, like
"Liberty," were capitalized, while other nouns, like "house," were
not. What's more, even with the same document, "liberty" might appear
with "Liberty," as a way for the writer to indicate emphasis -- e.g.,
"he had the liberty of the house for a time" vs "we are all concerned
about the Liberty of the Nation."
When I was a youth, I used to write quite a lot of material with no
capitals whatever and with ... separating sentences instead of a
single period. Then I grew up. If the purpose of a language is to
act as a medium of communication, then it makes sense to employ some
types of standardization in order to facilitate that communication.
Anyone who's read any of Celine's novels knows how quickly the lack of
capitalization can pall the reader. To the extent that some people
rewrite the rules according to their own whims, they may require us to
change our understanding of language behavior in order to accomodate
them.
However, as you point out, "it's a free country/world," and we are
under no obligation to take them seriously nor to do as they wish.
mp
8<---------------how-easy-is-it-to-demunge-an-address?------------------->8
#! /usr/bin/perl # if you are [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Another Luser):
while ($line = <>){ if ($line =~ m/^\s*$/ ){ last; }
if ($line =~ m/^From: (\S+) \(([^()]*)\)/){ $from_address = $1; } }
if ($from_address =~ m/\S+NOSPAM\S+/){ $x = index($from_address, NOSPAM);
substr($from_address, $x, 6+1) = ""; printf("The real address is %s\n",
$from_address);}else { printf("No munge, just plain %s\n",$from_address);}
printf("\nBrought to you by the Truth In Mail Headers Foundation\n");
8<-----------------------here's-one-example------------------------------>8
- --
Michael Powe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.trollope.org
Portland, Oregon USA
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Netscape Q: How to make it download in Binary (Mime types - arghhhhhhh!)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:03:49 GMT
In article <7836ao$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeremy Mathers) wrote:
> First of all - whoever invented the concept of Mime types ought to be shot!
> It has caused me nothing but grief over the years.
>
> That said, I want to be able to download RPM's through Netscape and
> have it transferred in Binary mode. If I click on a .tar.gz file, it
> immediately pops up a file-save dialog and this is good. When I click
> on an RPM, it displays binary garbage onscreen. This tells me that
> if I try to save the file, the result will be garbage (it will transfer
> in ASCII mode).
I too use Netscape's right-click "Save Link As ..." feature. Had the same
problems you mentioned; this method has alway worked, so far :-)
I've observed that "The more something can do for you, the more it can do
too you". Anything that occurs auto-magically follows this observation,
I prefer control.
--
Louis-ljl-{ Louis J. LaBash, Jr. }
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: "Michael.Creasy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 128 bit Netscape 4.08 built against glibc
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:02:06 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Then I guess you're one of the lucky ones, most of the time it crashes
for me.
Michael
John Girash wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.misc Michael.Creasy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Believe when I see it. Yet to find a version of Netscape than can
> : access http://www.michael.creasy.com without dying!!
>
> ?huh? NS3.04 navigates the site like a charm (albeit slowly) for me.
>
> (followsup only to colm)
> jg
>
> --
> "don't listen when you're told / about the best days in your life : Spirit of
> a useless old expression, it means / passing time until you die." : the West
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- John Girash --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://skyron.harvard.edu/ --
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (w joseph mantle)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: A newbie versus "vi"
Date: 20 Jan 1999 21:15:54 GMT
I don't like vi either, although not because it doesn't
have the pull down menus, rather that it requires extra
keystrokes every time you switch between the two
main modes.
Emacs is supposed to be the savior. But I don't like
it either. The backspace key pulls up the help menu.
And if you redefine the backspace key, it then takes
two or three keystrokes to pull up the help menu. And
many of the commands are counter intuative.
The best basic xwindow editor that I've found is
Nedit. The best basic terminal editor that I've
found is Joe.
Good luck.
Joe Mantle
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry)
Subject: Re: ATI Xpert@Work
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 20 Jan 1999 21:16:34 GMT
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:30:02 +0100, Danko Butorac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Need clocks lines for TextConfig file. Want to get SVGATextMode to work with
>my card (ATI RAGE PRO, MACH64GT).
>
>Maybe someone know how to extract those values from card?!!
>
>Thanks in advance for any suggestions
>
>Danko
If you have X running, get them out of the XF86Config. otherwise run
xf86config, then get them from the XF86Config file.
------------------------------
From: Ivo Naninck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to get rid of LILO?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:20:06 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi,
>
> Now I cannot get to WIN98.
>
Isn't that what we all want, actually!?!?
>
> IF anybody knows how to get rid of LILO, I would appreciate it very very
> much. (I hope it is not FDISK)
>
Sorry, but 'fdisk /mbr' is your friend!
> Frantisek.
--
Best regards, and don't let the bits byte!
Ivo Naninck.
~
~
:wq!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jamie)
Subject: Re: Can't compile kernel with sound card support, HELP!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:14:08 -0600
Niklas Lundin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>make dep, make clean, then make zImage. (and previously make mrproper)
>This time the compilation crashed...
>Below I have entered the output.
"make mrproper" deletes your configuration. After mrproper you have
to do a "make menuconfig" or "make xconfig" or "make config"
before "make dep"
--
jamie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
"There's a seeker born every minute."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:05:52 +0100
From: Thomas =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sch=FCtt?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: plp printing
Hi!
I've an interesting problem with my plp setup (SuSE 6.0, plp
4.1.2).
I've a printer connected to my server and a client connected
to the server. Both computers run plp via inetd:
(from /etc/inetd.conf)
printer stream tcp nowait root /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/bin/lpd
-i
When I print on the server with lpr, everything works just
fine. When I use lpr on the client, the data gets spooled to
the right printer entry on the server, but it won't be
printed unless I do a
lpd -q
Any ideas?
I'm using apsfilter and ghostscript on the sever to print
faxes and have apsfilter on the client configured as a ps
printer to get dvi and that stuff prefiltered.
(from clients /etc/printcap)
ascii|lp1|PS_300dpi-a4-ascii-mono-300|PS_300dpi a4 ascii
mono 300:\
:rm=stargate.mydomain.de:rp=lp2:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-ascii-mono-300:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-ascii-mono-300/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-ascii-mono-300/acct:\
:if=/var/lib/apsfilter/bin/PS_300dpi-a4-ascii-mono-300:\
:la@:mx#0:\
:sh:sf:
#
lp|lp2|PS_300dpi-a4-auto-mono-300|PS_300dpi a4 auto mono
300:\
:rm=stargate.mydomain.de:rp=lp2:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-auto-mono-300:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-auto-mono-300/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-auto-mono-300/acct:\
:if=/var/lib/apsfilter/bin/PS_300dpi-a4-auto-mono-300:\
:la@:mx#0:\
:sh:sf:
#
raw|lp3|PS_300dpi-a4-raw|PS_300dpi a4 raw:\
:rm=stargate.mydomain.de:rp=lp3:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-raw:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-raw/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/PS_300dpi-a4-raw/acct:\
:if=/var/lib/apsfilter/bin/PS_300dpi-a4-raw:\
:la@:mx#0:\
:sh:sf:
(from servers /etc/printcap)
ascii|lp1|ljet3-a4-ascii-mono-300|ljet3 a4 ascii mono 300:\
:lp=/dev/lp1:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-ascii-mono-300:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-ascii-mono-300/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-ascii-mono-300/acct:\
:if=/var/lib/apsfilter/bin/ljet3-a4-ascii-mono-300:\
:la@:mx#0:\
:sh:sf:
#
lp|lp2|ljet3-a4-auto-mono-300|ljet3 a4 auto mono 300:\
:lp=/dev/lp1:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-auto-mono-300:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-auto-mono-300/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-auto-mono-300/acct:\
:if=/var/lib/apsfilter/bin/ljet3-a4-auto-mono-300:\
:la@:mx#0:\
:sh:sf:
#
raw|lp3|ljet3-a4-raw|ljet3 a4 raw:\
:lp=/dev/lp1:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-raw:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-raw/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/ljet3-a4-raw/acct:\
:if=/var/lib/apsfilter/bin/ljet3-a4-raw:\
:la@:mx#0:\
:sh:sf:
--
home: www.thomas-schuett.de
eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Simmons)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft is not alone in the "bloatware" programming race....
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:17:13 GMT
In article <785shj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>In article <785dha$o0u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Michael Lee Yohe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>Fact : Microsoft make bloated applications.
>>
>>Fact: Everyone makes bloated applications. You see, we aren't
>>running on machines with 2MB of RAM anymore. I use a machine
>>chocked with 256MB of RAM. That's why 99.9% of programmers
>>write "bloated" code - I use bloated rather mildly as I do not
>>truly think that it exists.
>
>99.9% of programmers write shitty code.
That many of us? Hmmmmm... I write winblows programs (because it pays
the bills). I have to say that Microsoft continues to make advancements
in their compilers as far as executable size. For instance, an app I
compiled with Visual C++ 4.1 resulted in a final binary size of just
under 3mb. The SAME app compiled with Visual C++ 6.0 resulted in a final
binary size of just 1.6mb.
Code bloat has to do with a lot of issues. When you make use of another
company's code libraries, you have no control (or almost none) over how
much of that code librarie is used. This can cause bloat through no
fault of the programmer. When you add features by patching an existing
app, you can add bloat because the new feature most likely won't be as
well integrated into the existing code base, because it is, afterall, a
patch.
Today's modern compilers themselves optimize the resulting binaries to
eliminate un-used functions, un-used variables, and even optimizes loops
and such. Feature lists and "unser-friendly" enhancments are the main
cause of bloat. It takes A LOT of code to support user interfaces, not
because a given interface is difficult, but because we have to protect
the program from idiot users who can't seem to do anything right. We
probably fully 1/3 of our code to exception handling, error trapping,
data entry validation, and calculation errors caused by otherwise correct
data entry.
The more features our users want, the more code we have to put in. Plain
and simple.
--
=========================================================
John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html
John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector
http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html
IGPS Director
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If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's
shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================
------------------------------
From: Tom Fawcett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Neural Network Applications?
Date: 21 Jan 1999 09:16:24 -0500
nospam@nospam!.kom (Steve) writes:
> Does anybody know if there are any public domain neural network
> statistical packages available for Linux?
What do you want, a neural network package or a statistics package?
Try this:
http://SAL.KachinaTech.COM/index.shtml
and check out the comp.ai.neural-nets FAQ, which has a large index of NN
packages.
-Tom
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