Linux-Misc Digest #587, Volume #24 Wed, 24 May 00 17:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: setting up a standard text editor ("Gero H. Marten")
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation ("Ermine Todd")
JDK 1.1.8 Segmentation fault (Chad Lemmen)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Praedor Tempus)
Jserver install w/ Apache (Dennis)
wabi and glibc2.1, anyone having problems? (zentara)
Re: resume download program (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Smith)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Alexander Viro)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (George Russell)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (George Russell)
Future Domain ISA scsi card recognition problem (Steve)
Re: Photo-Quality printer? [was: HP DeskJet 930C PhotoREt III or (ray)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? ("Peter T. Breuer")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gero H. Marten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: setting up a standard text editor
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:22:53 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Carsten Arnold wrote:
> =
> Hi there,
> =
> I=B4m using Suse Linux 6.0
> How can I change the standard editor of my system to my prefered editor=
=2E
> For example, when i run "crontab -e" to edit the actual users crontab f=
ile,
> "vim", a vi clone is used. Where do I set the variable for the system
> standard editor, so that every user gets this setting?
> =
> Carsten
In your .bashrc include this:
export EDITOR=3D/usr/bin/emacs (or whatever editor you prefer)
-- =
Gero H. Marten
<http://www.provi.de/gmarten/>
--
------------------------------
From: "Ermine Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:17:28 -0700
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Interesting. I was aware of the large variety of track sizes ... anyone
who's traveled in different parts of the world can see this. I'm still not
sure that this adequately refutes the origin of why the measurement is as it
is - having seen some of the old Roman highways, the size does seem
similar - I'll have to measure it sometime.
Thanks for the reference.
--ET--
"Mats Olsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ghch5$r3u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <#W6p80ax$GA.273@cpmsnbbsa09>, Ermine Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >In this case, I have to agree with you 100%. Part of the justification,
> >interestingly enough, from MS for the original development of OS/2 was to
> >deal with this very issue of how the API had grown in sometimes less than
> >efficient manner (re: downright awkward).
> >
> >However, legacy issues will be with us forever - case in point: one of
the
> >limiting factors on the size of the solid rocket boosters in the space
> >shuttle was the (thru a moderate concatenation of history) width of
horses
> >behinds. The reason is that the segments are transported on railcars,
which
> >has to go thru a tunnel cut for the width of the track that was based
upon
> >the historical width in England, that was based upon the width of the
wagons
> >that ran on the roads (and fit the ruts therein) built by the Romans
(2000
> >years ago) who designed it this way based upon the how wide a wagon would
> >fit behind two horses - hence, the measurement of the width across their
> >backsides.
>
> It's a beatiful story. Unfortunately, its an urban legend.
>
> http://www.urbanlegends.com/misc/railroad_gauge.html
>
> /Mats
------------------------------
From: Chad Lemmen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: JDK 1.1.8 Segmentation fault
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:10:03 GMT
I downloaded JDK 1.1.8 from blackdown.org but I can't get it to work.
I'm using Corel 1.1, which, I think uses glibc and thats the version of
JDK I got. I extracted the tar file in /usr/local/jdk118_v1. Then just
to test it I tried /usr/local/jdk118_v1/bin/java -version and it tells
me Segmentation fault. Do I need to set some more things up? According
to the the README.linux file all I have to do is extract the file into
any directory I want. I've included that part of the readme file below.
According to this it should work.
"That's it! No CLASSPATH, no JAVA_HOME, or other environment variables
to set to get the basic system running. It can be installed anywhere
on your machine, and it figures out whatever information it needs
about where it was installed automatically when it runs."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Praedor Tempus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:27:14 -0600
Leslie Mikesell wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Praedor Tempus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Yes, which does nothing to damage the code that continues to
> >> be available.
> >[...]
> >
> >But it leads to PRECISELY the problem that exists on the Windoze side of
> >the PC that is generally agreed to be bad.
>
> How does it lead to that?
> Please show where Windows has even used any available
> and well tested code, or how the existance of such code has
> ever led them to do anything. (The Win2k/kerberos business
> may be a first).
HTML is another (and yes, Netscape WAS also guilty). For all you
know, much of windows communication protocols are perverted standards
just like their HTML, kerberos, etc.
What I am getting at is NOT that closed source is good (nor will I say
it is bad...certainly not in all cases...not ALL software is really
setup to make money off service or support) and open source is
automatically
good. I am getting at the differences between the GPL/LGPL and BSD
licenses
and what they permit. It appears to me that a BSD license WOULD allow
for
M$ to come along, make use of and pervert some widely used BSD-licensed
protocol or library such that it will only fully and properly work with
their own propriatory apps (locking out competitors UNLESS they cough up
cash to buy access to the perversions, err...extensions).
It seems to me that the GPL/LGPL licenses protect more against a
Microsnot-like move by a big player "embracing, extending, and
extinguishing"
than does the BSD-style license which almost cheers it on.
> >M$ produces extensions to
> >some standard. Because they are big, powerful and influential AND
> >provide tools that MANY use that then utilize these
> >alterations/extensions,
> >creating software/web pages, etc that incorporate these extensions,
> >they lock out alternatives.
>
> Why do you imagine that the alternative of starting from scratch when
> writing this cruft intended to lock you in would be better in
> any way for any of us?
I certainly wouldn't call for someone to start from scratch when it
isn't
necessary. A license that addresses use of a protocol or library that
is
widely used and even depended upon should prevent propriatory extensions
that break interoperability. OpenGL, all internet/network communication
protocols, for instance, should never be permitted to be made
propriatory
by anyone. If you want something added to the standard library or
protocol,
go to the freakin body in control of the standard and request it be
added
or join the body and work it from there. Don't just dick over others
just because you want to try and force people to use ONLY your app or
system. That is why I am none to keen on some of the provisions of the
BSD license, as I understand it, vs GPL/LGPL. With the latter you are
free to add to it to your hearts content. Free to extend it as you
need/
want...but you can't keep the extensions secret and lock out others. If
your software isn't easy/intuitive/properly featured enough to win on
merit,
then it certainly doesn't deserve to win out due to ties to secret
protocols
or libraries forcing one to use it regardless.
> >Many people would use it (a RELATIVELY small core of
> >hardcore linux/bsd users are not significant in the big scheme so
> >THEIR refusal to go along is irrelevant in the larger market) and
> >break intercompatibility...hmmm...just like in the windoze world.
>
> Yes, but, being well tested, it would not cause everyone as
> much trouble.
I'm sorry, but "well tested"? By who? To whom do you refer as the
testers? M$? Hardly, if that is what you meant. If you meant the
general bsd community, then that is not true because the software
taken and extended and kept propriatory is no longer the code you
originally devised and tested. It is perverted and altered by a
company, in this case, that has NEVER demonstrated an ability to
properly test and debug their code.
>
> >BSD licenses vs GPL or LGPL, would foster this sort of thing. There
> >just isn't (yet) a big boy on the block like M$ taking advantage of
> >his weakness in the licensing scheme.g
>
> Beg your pardon? Just about every player in the internet market
> started with BSD code. I contend that we are all better off
> as a result.
I am not ragging on BSD. It has a definite place with definite
strengths.
I am just not overjoyed by the BSD-style license, UNLESS it is used
sparingly, so as to prevent incompatibility due to secret, propriatory
extensions
on many basic libraries or protocols by one bad actor with corporate
power.
[...]
> >
> >I honestly ask why this is not hypocrisy because I really don't see
> >why it isn't?
>
> Before you go too far down this road, ask yourself if you would
> be better off if Sun had been unable to use BSD code, or if NFS
> would have ever been done if the company had been forced to donate
> their work instead of being able to choose which parts to contribute.
> Or would X have ever been done if the companies that funded the
> work had not been able to incorporate it into their own proprietary
> products?
Don't get me wrong here, for I am not, en toto, against the BSD license.
I am not against a company/person making money off their software
either.
I AM against propriatory alterations to standard communication protocols
so that only product X will run well with operating system Y which only
works properly on a network made up of Y systems - locking out
competing products unless the creator coughs up money to gain
access to the minor alterations. I am against alterations to
essentially
standard libraries that serve no purpose other than to lock in
users/lock
out competitors. Each change would have been better if submitted to a
standards body and then incorporated into the general standard -OR-
barring
that (if the body doesn't go for it and you see a compelling need for
the
extension) then go ahead an make the extension but then be required to
release the extension so all can use it as they see fit (if used often
enough it would become the standard in a manor that didn't further force
some monopoly down everyone's throat).
Again, this should apply to certain types of code, not necessarily all
code.
------------------------------
From: Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Jserver install w/ Apache
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:30:14 GMT
I am trying to install Jserver on Apache-1.3.11, I am running red hat 6.2
when I try to run the configure script I include:
--with-JSDK=/usr/local/JSDK2.0/lib/jsdk.jar I get "javax.servlet.Servlet
class not found in jsdk.jar." the jar file is there and it appears to
contain the class file in question. I tried installing through dso support
but then I get the message "apxs not found" I triple checked the directory
location, and I specified them correctly. Thanks in advance for any help
you can give.
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: zentara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: wabi and glibc2.1, anyone having problems?
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:52:05 -0400
Hi,
I have been using wabi to run agent 16-bit since I started using
linux about 5 years ago. It ran well under suse6.0 which had the
glibc2.0 libraries. I have upgraded to suse6.4, which uses glibc2.1,
and when I try to run agent under wabi, I get an error message:
"winsock error: hostname not found". Well I know the hostname is
there because I can connect to the newsgroups with any native linux
reader, and netscape.
Is anyone else trying to use wabi and ppp, and are you experiencing
problems?
Thanks
------------------------------
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt?= Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: resume download program
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:47:59 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Any 'command-line program' which can ressume the file download in case the internet
>link was lost ?
>
> I tried 'wget -c' but it cannot work when the source is a http server ( instead of
>ftp server ).
>
> Thx 1st
'Downloader for X' (also called 'nt') is available on Freshmeat.
--
Benoît Smith
Just a Rhyme Without a Reason
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Viro)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 24 May 2000 16:43:23 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Praedor Tempus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>and what they permit. It appears to me that a BSD license WOULD allow
>for
>M$ to come along, make use of and pervert some widely used BSD-licensed
>protocol or library such that it will only fully and properly work with
Protocol can't be licensed. Get a clue, already.
--
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (George Russell)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:51:59 GMT
On Wed, 24 May 2000 15:27:51 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>around? Or even two? If an application says it uses GTK+ ver x.y,
>
> YES.
>
> It allows for other platforms to be supported.
The QPL in no way forbids porting to BeOS / Mac/ Win 32.
Feel free to do so. Only TT's port to Win 32 is commercial.
George Russell
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (George Russell)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:52:00 GMT
On 23 May 2000 13:07:01 GMT, David T. Blake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The right is non-exlusive. That means everyone can get that right. I
>> think TrollTech is just trying to prevent forking of the Qt library
>> here.
Forking is allowed. Distribution via patches from pristine source - just like
what dpkg and rpm source files can do for you. Is that too fucking hard?
George Russell
(sick of whiners who cannot read an ASCII license file.)
Its called LICENSE.QPL btw.
------------------------------
From: Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Future Domain ISA scsi card recognition problem
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:50:33 +0100
I have an 18xx scsi card with a TMC18c30 chip set. It does seem to
be recognised by my Mandrake 7.0 setup. Is there anything I can do
to get this working by means of IRQ's etc?
--
Steve
------------------------------
From: ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Photo-Quality printer? [was: HP DeskJet 930C PhotoREt III or
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:56:46 GMT
Kevin E Cosgrove wrote:
> So, Epson & HP both make fairly cheap photo-quality inkjet printers.
> Are *ANY* of these (or other makes) supported on Linux at full
> resolution?
>
> Thanks...
>
Yes, I have an Epson Stylus 740 and there are "ways" to use it at all
three of it's available resolutions, as you choose. Much workable information
here: http://eunuchs.org/epson. Also, do a web search for epson linux, there
are many other solutions. This thing at 1440, actually looks better than the
Epson drivers under windoze. It is also more flexible, allowing better user
control of what's happening.
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> D G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > Nothing better than 600x600 here. Hopefully HP will get their act
> > together and release drivers for Linux.
>
> --
> kevinc AT doink DOT COM
> Change the AT and DOT in my reply-to address to send e-mail.
> Unless otherwise noted, the statements herein reflect my personal
> opinions and not those of any organization with which I may be affiliated.
--
Ray R. Jones
The Computer Shop
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
HTTP://gordo.penguinpowered.com
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Date: 24 May 2000 20:53:00 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: In article <8gh98u$iqj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
: Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>Lurking on the kernel list, or asking, tends to solve the problem.
:>Happens every day. Well, bugs crop up every two to three days.
:>Discussion about them goes on every day.
: This is fine for the handful of people who are working to solve
: current bugs. It is not so fine for the millions of people who
: are trying to work around what should be well understood bugs
: in released versions.
They wouldn't know a bug if it bit them in the nose and deleted every file
whose name ends in "e". It's the kernel developers and maintainers who
are interested in the bugs ,and they're interested in _getting_ bug
reports, because that's the hard bit.
:>Bugs that are reported more than once begin to become interesting.
:>Even popular!
: This is irrelevant to someone whose system has to work now.
They contact the newsgroup defence line for their distro. Kernel
list lurkers often answer there, if required, but 9999 times out of
ten thousand, they are looking at an application bug or a distro bug
or a configuration bug.
The last bug that hit anybody was when kppp broke becuase somebody
mended the kernel bug it depended on to find out if ppp was available
in the kernel. Millions of people never noticed that kernel bug.
Millions of them noticed at once when mending it broke kppp (and they
still pop up mumbling about the "this kernel was compiled without ppp"
error message). Not one of them has mailed the kernel developers with a
bug report.
:>It is very hard to locate or even describe a kernel bug.
: Again, a correct description is only relevant to a couple of
: people. The rest of the world just needs to know what circumstances
: break what thing, how to avoid it, and when it is fixed so they
: can stop taking those measures to avoid it.
You miss my point. I am saying that a kernel bug is INTRINSICALLY hard
to define. How do you know if the kernel is wrong? What is the standard
against which you are measuring it? It might be a legitimate behaviour,
and it might be the application that is broken. Nobody except a real
real expert can tell, and even then it's only an opinion. Lusers have
not a hope.
:>Waste his time? Doug's glad to respond to questions, as you know. It's
:>his code and he's interested in maintaining it! That's why his names's
:>up there. That's why he's working on it.
: It should never be necessary for a developer to tell someone else
: how to work around bugs. That is the real reason that bug tracking
Sure it should. Do you think they like sitting around in a cubicle all
day? Go 'way. You're no fun.
:>Oh, don't worry about that. Are you being funny here? I can't see any
:>smileys! As you know, the kernel list delivers a thousand or so mails a
:>day. Everyone copes with that. It's a question of grepping the subject
:>and deleting.
: And this is the list that you are suggesting that end users or
: administrators would use to see if a bug is already known?
You are purloining my words and selling them cheaply, while mixing
my aphorisms ... I am telling you that the end users can go dance in
hell, because you have a straw man there. There is no way a luser can
find or recognize a kernel bug that hasn't already been dealt with on
their distros newsgroups. If they're real interested they can sign up to
the list or browse archives on deja. At several hundred mails a day,
they'll be looking till kingdom come! If they're less interested they
can ask on a newsgroup, and let somebody who is filtering the stuff
through his brain answer. And they can check the newsgroup archives
too! Have a look at c.o.l.s. If they're really sure enough of
themselves to think they have detected a bug, they can post the mailing
list or the maintainer concerned. It is usually polite to post the list
first to get general feedback. If the resulting furore gets loud enough
the maintainer will pick it out of the kernel list noise and come
looking for you.
That's peer review.
Some lists are low volume. The eepro100 lists for example generally
spurt at up to about 10 a day, and then are silent for a while. Depends
on whether some interesting new chip/bug has been found. Lot's of
the eepro100 traffic actually turns up on the kernel list, for
"complicated" reasons involving various personalities. One can browse
those lists archives easily. And of course you can just read the driver
source comments and the web pages to see the bug history.
If you volunteer to host a bugtracker, btw, everyone will be happy.
It's no skin off anyone's back. But getting people to actually
use it is a social problem you should solve! The plain fact is that
point bugs are found and solved in hours .. way faster than a
bug tracking system can get in on. And the n-n communication is part of
that. It's Linus' "all bugs are visible to many eyes" line. Put
up a bugtrack system and you reduce the coommunication to n-1. You
isolate the developers from each other. That's no good.
: Les Mikesell
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peter
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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