Linux-Misc Digest #594, Volume #25 Mon, 28 Aug 00 05:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Drive issues (CDROM, CDRW & Samba) (Tim Van Holder)
boot messages (Marco Viets)
Help - what to do if X runs at bad resolution and graphical logins are used? (Tim
Van Holder)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Re: fs for both linux and freebsd? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Borland C++ for Linux (Mile Davidovic)
Re: SCSI CDRW Locks up Redhat 6.1 ("Harris L. Gilliam")
Re: crypt code (Villy Kruse)
Graphs program ! (Henning)
Re: Best Linux Distribution (Robert Kiesling)
Re: Xterm problem (Thomas Dickey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 00:12:00 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:SJmq5.20399
> Distributed applications mean that to get the distributed application to
> run, I have to get a number of applications installed and configured,
> usually across a range of platforms, and integrated with firewalls, etc.
> Today I do that with sometimes great programs (like the RPM) and sometimes
> with less great facilities (like Install Shield). But I have to manually
> install and configure each component, often in an exact order. I have
> databases, database clients, compilers, web servers, object request
brokers
> of various sorts, etc. that all have their own sets of needed tweaks based
> on the topology we are setting up.
>
> All of that just to get the right abstractions up and running so we can
> begin to talk about setting up and configuring the actual application.
>
> That is what I mean when I say we need to be able to manage cross platform
> distributed applications. Today we have given up on client side
> distributed applications. Involving the client in all of this seems like
it
> is just too difficult. But look at the promises! Many of the
applications
> we are predicting require client side intelligence. And even the ones
that
> don't are passing up on lots of CPU cycles that would greatly improve
their
> performance. All because we can't deliver and manage software.
Who can't deliver software? It is being done all the time.
What do you mean that we can't manage software and who is we?
> The Internet means distributed applications. And internet delivered
> software. Transient software (applications that install, you use for a
> while, then they go away.)
>From which RFC did you get that definition of the Internet.
Who controls the installation, use, and removeal of the "transient
software"?
> Take one of many examples:
>
> Say that I want to be able, as an Application Service Provider (ASP), to
> deliver native code to my clients. But today I can't because I can't
manage
> all the combinations of possible configuration issues that my customers
are
> going to encounter if I deliver software the way we do today. As an ASP I
> become responsible. If I try to push this responsibility off onto the
> specific Application Developer, they are simply going blame the problem on
> one or more of the other venders that delivered software to this customer.
>
> But if instead I am providing XML described software, then this
> responsibility to deal with these combinations shifts to the vender of the
> Software Rendering Facility the customer is using. But unlike the ASP,
the
> Facility vender deals with this day in and day out for all their customers
> (a set much larger than the ASPs). And doing so is part of their value
add.
> Furthermore, part of their value add is assuring the customer they can
> cleanly remove the new software if no repair for the installation is forth
> comming.
>
> That is why the Internet changes things.
No, the internet changes nothing. But rather than going into detail now, I
will wait until I have seen your concrete example.
On the other issue of ASP's, you have still not responded to my eariler
questions of how you would address various problems that would happen, if
the world of computing accepted the ASP model as a norm.
> We are at the breaking edge when it comes to delivering and deploying
these
> technologies. System upgrades? Replacing a busted server? Reconfiguring
to
> use the next release of a database?
and slipping in Trojan software, breaking solid installation so you can seel
an upgrade compromising privacy and security.
> These are all very, very difficult when
> they must be done manually, system by system.
Yes, it is quite difficult to slip in and then slip back out software that
is counter counter to the benefits of the owners of the computers when you
have to rely on them or their agents to unknowingly perform the neferious
deed for you.
> What is to be done if even reasonably simple applications that you happen
to
> desire (but I would never dare imply intersect my own) happen to require
> code to be installed on your computing device? Even if we "trust" each
> other, my code might not be compatible with other code you are using.
This
> problem may even be a known one, along with the configuration fix needed.
Then it should be the job of the person responsible for the computer to
perform the steps needed to make things work. That way, if and when thing
break he or she will know what was done and how to remedy it. AND if
someone is trying to pull a fast one on them, they will have the evidence.
> How do we upgrade and manage distributed applications when they do break
out
> of the servers and onto the Internet in peer to peer configurations?
They same way we do it now already. It works and it is secure. The person
responsible for the computer determines the the machine should participate,
they aquire the required software, reguardless of who developed it, so long
as it is compatible with the communications protocol. They the install it.
> > By the way, do you know what it means to program a station? I don't
think
> > you do, or else you would not have used, "the station I programmed on
the
> > Internet", since it does not belong in this discussion.
>
> www.Sonicnet.com I am not sure why I referenced it, but I just
"programmed"
> my station, which delivers western music, classical, and pop. You really
> haven't lived until your radio station follows Bach with Johnny Cash! No
> way anyone could have followed that reference, so I am sorry for any
> heartburn it caused.
Again, you confirm that you are using invalid definitions for your
terminology.
> > > We can't do all of this by coping all our files onto our bin
directory.
> >
> > I never mentioned anythng about copying anything into bin. I never even
> > mentioned bin. Further, I would never suggest putting ALL our files
into
> > bin let alone onto bin. The installation method has nothing to do with
> what
> > the software can do once it is installed.
>
> Forget the reference to bin (a really dirt simple install method that
likely
> predates you a bit).
Guess again.
> However, you nailed it on the head there! Let me repeat you:
>
> > The installation method has nothing to do with what
> > the software can do once it is installed.
>
> So true. And my point. And it doesn't matter who did it either. And
> installs are solely modifications to storage. Just changes to some data
> structures (the file system). So rather than argue those points (which it
> seems we now agree on them) explain why we should describe these
> modifications differently for different target systems? Why the
information
> about how these structures are interrelated is uninteresting past install?
> Why versioning of applications (and their related structural changes)
> doesn't have to be explict? And why should we do installs from within the
> OS? Why not outside the OS where we can manage everything, across
> platforms, in the same way?
> > You are begining to sound like a person how has come up with a half
baked
> > idea to solve a problem that does not exist and is now trying to
convince
> > others that they have a problem so that your can sell them your solution
> for
> > it. Yes sir you have trouble right here in River City!
>
> Well, we do. You might be managing a single system, but I am not.
Guess again.
> And I am
> in the position of having to explain to customers how they are going to
> manage their systems after I have gone to my next job. Or explain to them
> that we have spent three weeks getting an application to work, but we
don't
> have anything to check in to the source code control system. ("We were not
> working on code. It took us three weeks to get X to talk to Y, and for Z
to
> come up configured to point to A through firewall B. We are documenting
it,
> so if something goes wrong, you will be able <cough, look at toes> to
> duplicate what we had to do to make it work. We will check that docuement
> in. >")
Pardon me, but are you admitting that you are a "flim flam man"?
------------------------------
From: Tim Van Holder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Drive issues (CDROM, CDRW & Samba)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 07:13:12 GMT
(I posted this here firday, but it seems to have disappeared of the
server, so I'm reposting it)
I'm having a number of drive problems:
a) My regular cd drive is no longer automounting, nor is
if auto-playing audio-cd's (and yes, the option to
auto-play cd's is still enabled in the Gnome
configuration).
My cdwriter (on /dev/cdrom1) has never automounted,
nor does Gnome list a 'Mount Device' option if I place
a symlink to /mnt/cdrom1 on the desktop (while it does
for the reader).
Anything I should look for?
I've also noted that if I login non-graphically, and then
run startx, icons for mounted drives (including the
samba-based NT share that was added only recently), is
displayed correctly. Is the use of gdm inhibiting this
'detection' of mounted/mountable devices?
b) I've followed the procedures in the CDWRITER howto, but
I've had no luck enabling the ide-scsi emulation
drivers; whether I change modules.conf or lilo.conf,
at startup all drives will be detected as IDE (and
afterwards the scsi driver will load and find no
controller (not surprising, as both CD drives are ATAPI)).
I have noticed that there's no sr_mod module (as listed
in the HOWTO); is there anything I should try before
attempting to recompile the kernel?
c) I'm trying to mount an NT share at boot time (auto
option in fstab); all needed parameters are supplied,
at the prompt 'mount /mnt/foo' works perfectly, as does
'mount -a -t smbfs'; but at boot time, I get the message
'mounting SMB filesystems', followed by an unusually
long delay, after which is says OK. However, usually
the filesystem is not actually mounted (but
/sbin/mount.smbfs is running). Sometimes, an ls /mnt
will display '/mnt/foo: I/O error'.
Any help is appreciated.
Current system: Intel P3 800MHz running RedHat 6.2,
with kernel 2.2.16-3.
Tim Van Holder
Falcon Software NV
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Marco Viets <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: boot messages
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:25:24 +0200
Hi,
could anybody tell me, how to get rid of the following messages that appear
while booting my new SuSE 7.0 2.2.16 kernel?
thanks in advance,
Marco
Mounting /dev/pts.modprobe: modprobe:Can't locate module devpts
mount: fs type devpts not supported by kernel failed
modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-10
------------------------------
From: Tim Van Holder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Help - what to do if X runs at bad resolution and graphical logins are used?
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 07:25:42 GMT
Hi,
this morning, I was stupid enough to change the default resolution for X
from 1024x768 to 1280x1024 (I'm using a TNT2 and a Dell UltraScan P991,
so this is certainly supported). I was sure I had previously corrected
the scan ranges to match the ones used by the Dell (it's not (yet)
listed in the Xconfigurator database). Apparently I was mistaken; since
I had also changed the font paths for both X and the xfs, I did a
reboot.
Upon booting, however, I was treated to the monitor message 'Monitor is
operating out of scan range' instead of my usual graphical login. I
tried rebooting and not loading linuxconf or local, but this did not
inhibit graphical login. And since only one resolution was set up,
[ctrl]-[alt]-[kp+] didn't provide a solution.
Luckily, we have 2 X clients set up (using X-Win32 on NT), so I was able
to do a remote login, update the configuration and do a remote reboot.
It's unlikely I'll be so stupid again, but in case I am:
* How do I prevent graphical login from being used at boot time?
* How do I set up multiple resolutions, defaulting to the highest?
Even if I list "1280x1024", "1024x768" and "800x600" (int that
order), X seems to pick the lowest at startup.
Praying the Linux guru's will forgive my newbieness,
Tim Van Holder
Falcon Software NV
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 00:37:21 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message
> I wonder if he realises you can practically do that with Mozilla now.
> Take Chatzilla for example; you click on the "install Chatzilla"
> button and Mozilla takes the .xpi file and installs it. It's platform
> independant and easy. If Mozilla were to grow into a desktop shell,
> then this ideal could be at least partially realised.
You and I and many others know it, but I don't think he would accept it. It
conflicts with what seems to be his needs for the day. Imagine he is
Preston's character in the "Music Man".
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: fs for both linux and freebsd?
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:37:22 -0600
In article <8o9udr$19l$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, alex k <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> aloha!
>
> i have a partition that i want to be able to mount
> (r/w +reliably) both under linux/2.2.16 and freebsd/4.1release.
> its all on the same computer and the same IDE disk.
> which filesystem-type should i choose?
>
> the puter is a so-called leafnode used by only me
> (almost no longer newbie).
> that partition will just be mounted occasionally, to store
> some user- and configfiles, and to (reliably) move data between
> freebsd and linux.
>
> current config:
> hda1: fat32, 5gig
> hda2: ext2fs, 3gig (/ +swap)
> hda3: ufs, 3gig (/ +swap)
> hda4: ?, 1gig
>
> ufs isnt reliably written to under linux (i got some errors,
> not good...).
> i heard ext2fs has new features that freebsd dont
> recognize, is that true? (slack7.1 made my ext2fs)
> fat32 doesnt preserve fileattributes...
>
> nfs? setting up servers and clients and such, isnt
> that too much hassle for my usage?
Sorry that I don't have a direct answer, since I don't know what
FSs the BSDs support. I can say that NFS won't work unless
both can be running at the same time. Methinks this isn't
possible in this situation.
------------------------------
From: Mile Davidovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Borland C++ for Linux
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:47:21 +0200
XWPE, very similiar to bc++4dos.
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:52:49 +0100, Garry Knight
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Stuart Mika Hankel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Hello. Does anyone know of a version for Linux for development in C? I mean
>>an environment for debugging, like Borland C++ for DOS.
>
>The nearest thing I know of to that is Kylix which is likely to be released
>later this year.
>http://community.borland.com/article/0,1410,21301,00.html (article about Kylix)
>http://www.drbob.tdmweb.com/kylix (screenshots)
------------------------------
From: "Harris L. Gilliam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: SCSI CDRW Locks up Redhat 6.1
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 03:29:17 -0400
Harris L. Gilliam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> bernieo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I just purchased a Yamaha 8x8x24 SCSI CD Recorder.
>> This replaces an IDE CD Recorder which I could not get to work under
>> Linux.
> I'm having similar problems with the INITIO Ultra SCSI card and a
> Yamaha 6x4x16 CDRW. I'm pretty sure what happens is that the Yamaha
> gets confuzzled when the termination isn't just right and then does
> some sort of SCSI bus reset that crashes the machine.
> In my config I have the Yamaha and an AIWA 4mm DAT connected at the
> same time. The DAT is external. Someone mentioned in another thread
> that sometimes the SCSI card doesn't have enough juice to power the
> internal and external terminators. So my next attempt is to enable
> the terminator power on the DAT and see if things improve. You might
> want to try something similar.
> This is either a bug in the Yamaha firmware or the INITIO device
> driver, I can't tell which yet.
Okay so... I hooked up my DAT to the internal SCSI chain with the
Yamaha at the end. The DAT is not terminated, the Yamaha is, and
everything works fine :-) So I suspect the INITIO card can't power the
terminator when the DAT is hooked up externally. I haven't tried
enabling the DAT's terminator power and connecting it externally again
but I bet that will work too.
---Harris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Villy Kruse)
Subject: Re: crypt code
Date: 28 Aug 2000 08:27:21 GMT
On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:47:00 -0700, JCA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is just a single-rotor enigma machine, that can automatically be
>broken
>(try the cbw program.) I doubt very much that this is export-restricted. I
>think
>that the crypt code you have in mind is a DES variant. This certainly used to
>
>be export-restricted, but not any more (unless you are exporting it to
>countries
>like Iraq or Libya.)
>
>
No, i have the rotor version in mind, and with all unix versions I've been
using for the past 10 years, all of them says that the crypt command is
unavailabla outsied the US claiming this program is export restricted.
It might no longer be, though, but that is a different story, especially
considering youcan get full blown IDEA and 3DES without problems from
non-US ftp servers, and also that rules for exporting these things
has changed (se we hear) lately.
Villy
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Henning)
Subject: Graphs program !
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:44:56 GMT
Hi all,
I'm looking for a good graphs/math program for linux.
I have tried Gnuplot but I find it to be less than desirable.
I would like it to have a GUI. And as the output is to be used in
latex docs, I would like it to be able to export to a format readable
be latex.
Anyone knows of a good program?
Thanks
Henning M
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Best Linux Distribution
From: Robert Kiesling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 28 Aug 2000 04:54:36 -0400
On Aug 28, 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Black) wrote:
>
> Generally, I can't help but wonder as I look at many of the questions
> in these newsgroups, is whether people are asking because they don't
> understand something, or because they can't find the answer or don't
> know where to look. There is an awful lot of documentation available
> for Linux, the FAQ, the various guides, the Howto's and the tutorials.
> t strikes me that some of the answers might be answered not by a bigger
> FAQ, but some sort of overall index to the material. For example,
> "mount" might point to the online man page, and it might also point
> to the CDROM Howto (since a lot of mount and unmount questions seem
> to apply to CDROMs) along with other places where the command is dealt
> with. I do that sort of thing now, only manually, when I pull out one
> book and look in the index, and then look in another book to see
> what it says about the same thing. A "universal index", as much of
> a drag as it would be to keep up to date because the material itself is
> so often updated, would help people to find material on what they
> were looking for.
Most of that information can be found with your favorite web search
engine. Much of it is Unix related and not specific to Linux. As for
an index, one commercial site, CNET, has permission to use the
information from the FAQ and other sources besides. I believe it is
searchable. If you've ever done any indexing, then you know how much
work it is. Most of us are too busy with paying work to seriously
consider such a possibility.
Robert
--
http://www.mainmatter.com/
------------------------------
From: Thomas Dickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Xterm problem
Date: 28 Aug 2000 08:57:17 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I have got a weird problem with xterms under my redhat 6.2/gnome
> setup.
>> The text i type is not visible wherein it seems to me as if the
>> foreground and background color of the text are the same.basically the
>> text I type on the screen and the prompt which is supposed to come on
>> the xterm is replaced by dark areas.My xsetup is 800/600 at 16 bits.
> I solved this problem by specifying the exact 50 odd character font
> name on the Xdefaults file. However this seems to be a system wide
> problem since the system uses the fixed font which is the culprit font.
> How do i refer to this system wide fixed font and change it to a font
> which is readable.
well it didn't _sound_ like a font problem based on the first description.
however: your fixed font is listed in the
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/fonts.alias file.
man mkfontdir for details. Perhaps the alias file wasn't created properly
(if edited, for instance by an install script).
--
Thomas E. Dickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://dickey.his.com
ftp://dickey.his.com
------------------------------
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