On 22 Oct 02, at 11:34, Elias Athanasopoulos wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 08:02:33PM -1000, David Jones
> wrote:
> No, it has 100% to do with the way you code. You
> can 
> 
> This is the criterion from the user/programmer
> perspective. It is well known that you can use almost
> everything in a bad manner...

That's right. Being a former tech writer, I've seen most 
any language used in that way. ;-)

> You can kill someone even using a pen, but it's kinda
> easier to do it with an M-16. :-)

And even easier with a shotgun (which is an image I 
sometimes get when consider C pointers), ;-)

> > write non-spaghetti code in BASIC. And personally, I
> > find C's beloved pointers to be far more dangerous than
> > BASIC's GOTO! ;-)
> 
> Goto is a myth. C uses it, too. IMHO, it's quite useful.
> The goto becomes a problem when it is used a lot without a
> sane reason.

Better to say that the idea that "GOTO is evil and must 
be exorcized at once" is a myth. Most folk I've read 
complaining about GOTO have been academic computer 
language designers.

GOTO has its good points - my programming experience 
was partly in good old Commodore BASIC and 
GWBASIC, where a well-placed GOTO was great. 
(Unlike C's pointers, a BASIC GOTO can't shoot you off 
somewhere to an unknown memory location.) My other 
programming experience is in Forth. The Forth I used 
didn't have a GOTO at all, although you could certainly 
make one yourself if you really wanted to.

> As far as the pointers are concerned, pls don't mix
> "difficult to read code" with "spaghetti code". Pointers
> can give *elegant* solutions to many problems. That's the
> reason they are so popular.

Oh, I'm not mixing them - I understand the difference. 
Pointers can be very elegant, yes. But one must use 
them carefully, lest one experience a phenomonon folk 
programmning the old 68000 called "addressing grey 
space" because an invalid value had been used as a 
pointer.

I'm no C programmer, so I know I'd find a chain of 
bizarre GOTOs easier to figure out than some of the 
complex pointer stuff I've glimpsed in my limited C code 
reading. A co-worker who's a longtime C/C++ 
programmer would understand the pointer stuff at a 
glance.

BTW, gnewtellium sounds like fun. Thanks for the link!

David
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