On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Alan Cox wrote:
> > So? The smallest hard disk I can buy now holds 3.2 GB at $110. For
>
> Really. I'd love to know where you can get 3.2Gb disks that have < 1024
> cylinders so work in all the 486's I have. Or for that matter 3.2Gb PCMCIA
> disks for the laptop.
>
> > The point being that just one GB is rather large, that NOBODY has less
> > than 1 GB to install into anymore and that vanilla RH 5.2 occupies less
>
> I think a lot of people would disagree. I have friends whom I've given
> things like spare ISA video cards because they couldn't afford to build
> a machine except by collecting other peoples junk and buying the last
> few pieces.
OK, I apologize, I was wrong. There are people for whom the 25 MB of
source is an issue, and I knew that. Let me get my foot out of my
mouth...pthew. So we shouldn't force people to install sources.
On the other hand, try to see what I'm trying to communicate here, as
mail is still running five or six to one in favor of my thesis.
Scenario: There are people who try to install Red Hat for the first
time and discover that their devices are working. They generally get to
where they have a console, but have no network or sound card or some
other key component, especially if the network adapter is an old ISA
NE2K or the like or the sound card requires some parameters to be set
when the module is built. They ask their linux-expert friends who say
"go and build a kernel and set thus and such". Or they themselves are
linux-expert, but are running Red Hat for the first time. They know
nothing about RPM's yet, and their install manual contains nothing about
building a kernel or configuring linux. They call Red Hat and get no
help at all -- they are either told that the module they have should
work or that the device in question isn't supported (in spite of the
fact that their friends tell them that the device works fine if properly
set up or that they used it a week earlier on the same machine before
"upgrading" to Red Hat).
Is it so crazed to want new users in this category to have a choice
during the install in the form of a single panel that says something
like:
======================================================================
Click the button below to install the kernel sources. You might want
to install the kernel sources if:
a) You have trouble getting a particular device to work and Red Hat
support is unable to help you and you want to try it yourself;
b) You have an unusual or experimental device and would like to try
building a kernel or module to support it;
c) You wish to build and operate an SMP kernel. Note that Red Hat
does not directly support SMP linux, but that in many cases it works
well. To obtain support and help for SMP operation, one can visit the
linux-smp FAQ at:
http://www.irisa.fr/prive/mentre/smp-faq/
and optionally join the linux-smp list.
<Install Kernel Source>
======================================================================
I know that Red Hat doesn't want to acknowledge that a) is a
possibility, but in my experience it is fairly commonplace. b) is also
not uncommon -- there is constantly new hardware coming out, often with
driver support on the side or in a recent kernel image. c) is, of
course, the reason that this whole discussion started.
With no more than this, Dell could very likely manage to support SMP on
RH linux. The linux-smp FAQ "I am running Red Hat Linux and want to run
SMP, how do I do it" would cease to occur on the list. It doesn't force
users to install kernel sources (since one doesn't need to more than
once in a LAN and might not want to on a 486 with a tiny legacy disk)
but it DOES make new users with plenty of disk aware that they can
install kernel sources, that the sources may help them solve certain
problems even if Red Hat cannot or will not, and that the sources are
NECESSARY to run smp (and then they can read the README in the sources
or the smp-faq to learn how to proceed). It might even encourage new
users to get involved with the linux kernel and not expect linux (Red
Hat or other) to be a clone of Windows and beyond their control, which I
view as a Good Thing.
I'm really not trying to pick a fight here -- I'm trying to point out a
very real problem set and at the same time suggest a constructive
solution. I've had the difficulty described above myself with Red Hat
5.2, and I'm actually a moderately experienced linux and unix person.
The folks I'm helping past the humps described above (supported devices
don't work and RH can't/won't help, devices unsupported by RH but
supported in kernel source or elsewhere, and SMP) are far LESS
experienced and far MORE likely to just give up and run something else
or give up on linux altogether. I hate it when that happens;-)
Either way, I'll quit discussing this now. Sorry if I bored and/or
pissed anybody off.
rgb
Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/
Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305
Durham, N.C. 27708-0305
Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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