-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/04/2011 01:36 PM, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Charles N Wyble <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yeah. I know that. I wasn't trying to convince you. I was simply >> highlighting other options for folks in this thread, who might be >> interested in symmetric options. > > Seriously though, with my flame-bait hat off for just a moment, I really > don't understand just how in the world does MegaPath stay in business. > (Why am I picking on MP specifically? Only because they are the last > remaining CLEC; everyone else is gone. NorthPoint bit the dust back in > 2001. Rhythms got bought out by WorldCom/MCI; when it became Verizon > Business, they killed it. Then only Covad remained, and now they are > MegaPath.)
Well there are a couple decent sized CLECS still around. DSLExtreme is a CLEC. Speakeasy is a CLEC (though I think they got bought by BestBuy as I recall. Kind of a weird purchase.). But yes MegaPath is the remaining CLEC that does any serious business with a national foot print. (I think DSLExtreme is only in CA). Not sure about Speakeasy. The CLEC craze was well documented in a book called CLEC: An Insiders Look at the Rise and Fall of Competition in the Local Exchange Competition (http://www.amazon.com/CLEC-Insiders-Competition-Local-Exchange/dp/0897254708/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294177906&sr=8-1) I have a copy. Shipped from the author and signed by him. It's a fairly rare item these days. Yes I'm that big of a telco geek that I have the only book on the CLEC salad bowl days on my bookshelf. Right next to books about DSL and SS7. > > In this discussion I am ignoring the 100 Mbps and higher "Metro-E" or > whatever they are called connections, because I haven't seen anyone > suggest them yet Sure. Most peoples homes/MDU aren't within 500 feet of fiber that could support those connections, and as such the construction costs would be a killer. Lots of people are on an access network (FiOS/Uverse), but that can't get you l2 access/bgp etc (at least not to my knowledge). I happen to be within 500 feet of ATT/TimeWarnerCable gigabit fiber. If I wanted to pay the fees, I could get a direct fiber connect turned up. However it's too exorbitant of a cost, until I become a CLEC, then the dynamic changes considerably. :) - - instead everyone focuses on FiOS, U-Verse and the > cable company, while I am the ONLY crazy guy advocating SDSL/T1. Well SDSL/T1 are viable options. SDSL being more so due to the lower cost, and the substantial effort put into your SDSL CPE. > > So let's examine the ADSL/cable/FiOS/U-Verse vs. SDSL/T1 dilemma from > the perspective of a CLEC operator like Covad-MegaPath: > > Option 1: MP would be happy to sell you ATT/Verizon ADSL or cable. But > they don't own any of that infrastructure, so they can only resell it. > At a markup, of course. So most people would be better off buying the > exact same thing directly from ATT/Verizon or your cable company, for > less. As for FiOS or U-Verse, I don't think any 3rd parties like MP > can resell that at all. On the one hand a direct buy makes sense. On the other hand, a CLEC can put more pressure on the ILEC in times of an infrastructure issue. The CLEC has an entire customer base behind it, so it's complaints carry serious weight. Not to mention things like actual SLA. (I have spent way too much time reading over ATT/Verizon CLEC information). > > Option 2: MP can sell you SDSL, 2x bonded SDSL (they call it 3 Mbps > Ethernet, damn marketing), Hmmmm. That's interesting. Calling it ethernet is misleading. Unless they are providing l2 access, site to site connectivity etc (ie metro ethernet offerings). You can do this with DSL (there are MPLS offerings over DSL). T1 or up to 4x bonded T1. This stuff they > can actually deliver themselves using the facilities they own, now that > they and Covad are the same company. And if someone other than MP wants > to offer SDSL (like VZB did when I got mine), *they* have to go through > Covad which is now MP. Wait.... what does Covad/MP own? They don't just lease infrastructure/space/copper plant (unbundled network elements) from the ILEC? > > Everyone on this list (well, everyone except me, but I don't count > because I'm a nut) has been saying in one voice that FiOS/U-Verse/cable > (or even first-generation ADSL) is a far more sensible option than > SDSL/T1. Furthermore, one is the better off buying that stuff directly > from ATT/Verizon or the cable company, rather than going through a > cost-added reseller like MP. Right. Well there are certain advantages to going through a CLEC. Like not having to navigate an awful IVR, and getting sales people to call you back in less then three weeks. > > So here is the giant question: how in the world does MP/Covad stay in > business then? I honestly have no idea. Customer service. Really that's what it comes down to. Also some amount of competition is required, otherwise the feds start looking at ATT/VZ too closely. :) > >> Yeah I know that you aren't the only SDSL user. It would appear to even >> be offered by ATT. See >> http://www.business.att.com/enterprise/Service/access-enterprise/internet-access-enterprise/dsl-service-enterprise/ >> >> It used to be an option during provisioning on the web interface. I >> don't see it now. However numerous references to SDSL exist. > > Yes, I would be very curious to know if it's still orderable or not. It doesn't appear to be from the web interface: https://smallbusiness.bellsouth.com/form_order_dsl_direct13.aspx (it used to be an option on that page) > It's a really weird arrangement: ATT Internet services orders transport > from the CLEC (Covad-now-MP), then the CLEC turns around and orders the > dry copper pair from the ATT ILEC! And it does end up going through the > Covad-operated DSLAM in the CLEC cage, *not* ATT's own. Right. Unbundled network elements. Layer 1 operator being the ILEC, l2 and above being CLEC. > >> Sure. I've considered getting an SDSL line as a backup. I wonder how >> much diversity in terms of cable path/dslam/atm etc SDSL has vs ADSL >> into the same CO. Things to research. > > As Jeff has already said, the separate copper pair runs down the same > bundle. However, once it hits the CO, it's a different world. ADSL is > handled by ATT/VZ equipment; SDSL goes into the CLEC cage leased by > Covad-MP. In that cage it connects to a Nokia D50 DSLAM just like the > one in my lab, the one that Topher has pushed the new firmware version > to a few weeks ago. From that DSLAM onward the ATM cells travel on DS3 > pipes leased to Covad/MP, different from those used by ATT/VZ's own > DSLAMs. Got it. Something like http://www.business.att.com/content/product/images/dsl_Copy.gif > > I've learned quite a bit about these DSLAMs - if you ever need to hack > one to sniff someone else's SDSL line or anything along these lines, you > know whom to talk to... j/k. :) > > In another message: > >> Right. I would expect it to ride the same cable path into the MDF. >> However I wasn't sure if it would necessarily be a different DSLAM. >> Couldn't they just mix ADSL/SDSL cards in the same chassis? > > Layer 8 & up issues. ATT/VZ have chosen to deploy DSLAMs that aren't > SDSL-capable, or even if a DSLAM happens to support SDSL line cards, > ATT/VZ would never stick one it, they would rather outsource SDSL to > what used to be Covad. Got it. - -- Charles N Wyble ([email protected]) Systems craftsman for the stars http://www.knownelement.com Mobile: 626 539 4344 Office: 310 929 8793 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJNI5p0AAoJEMvvG/TyLEAtCYEQAMJoWu8mH3EEKc81CrY1iKXy NZLYC2SiuQnRRjtPNm8j4/bhZi27CFR9WjG06GDxkqRZ+jxA/MU6w7vcPVhteYOJ BqMymPwh5Kp/P5/BsikmSyTFHvuFoOE/oobAJIAmKjzMvzrbmTxxJZs9mGIbouTS eHr2LTrkrRhJjZ+tEhWIu9UohVLxh+jhr8l/nRQB3a+G3EzWMJhCeBnJoKsu53ri OTcYAw5rtsa7l5MPB4QMF7YRuUSJJfKY3TdrNj+TOtVN4k+MS/9p0qeZEJycoM4K lJ8thE2t9aoP2qKvh0YiLVYzIRHShx9yoKo5HfyBWz5iO+4DDa+6S6HNMQSmc+jl rDgxQtlM+/fcLer5zIMIpNyJ3ONqOTsa0HaybwMSFD19AypEGtHUIpuiL499albn niJi1LG4qjQEj9G+T2ji7m8doHRXHJN0M7KYkdIiKLRGk8veE+ZfKo4IP4wOkZmf we3zcUOuEXuofJqh7UIW5TowEZeOotrJnZfP9grNHkzV4K07BrtJm4PmJkbux+6Z 85kkiP3GzS/J7YrvHgu48hBsNWFqZOge56RHVX6FRTiOE/AsEvt/aBoxB+0V/nDU TsRaQyfluKNmGl/u9WnU4Xqrqc1lf+9ImhUO0LCl0MBoPVJugBWuVIIrfCfh3Rwt KzpjchOgKW6G0oZuO+X9 =Kt7I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ LinuxUsers mailing list [email protected] http://socallinux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxusers
