Edward, it is easy to speak the truth about simply lies. But there are deeper lies which we can ever see, we only see something goes wrong but no which is the lie behind. Therefore, we can not speak the truth about lies we don´t realize. Did anyone tell you ever that this is the fault of your method of speaking the truth? Deep and unrecognized lies stop the "cleaning effect" of speaking the truth. Can you see it?. Arrange this fault of your method or it would be good for nothing.
Elo --- On Sat, 5/14/11, Edward Jones <ewjo...@cox.net> wrote: From: Edward Jones <ewjo...@cox.net> Subject: RE: Exploring the a Paradox To: "'Elo Turquier'" <cac...@yahoo.com>, "'list'" <listening-l@zrz.tu-berlin.de> Date: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 8:08 AM : Exploring the a Paradox Hello Edward, "speaking the truth" is really powerfull for avoiding to be engaged in mental mess but it does not work for me for "cleaning habits". I have insane behaviors, I don´t deny them neither make excuses to my self, but even so they go on. Perhaps I am still telling lies to myself and do not realize it. Elo ````Yes Elo, you do make excuses for yourself, so you are telling yourself lies. Edward --- On Sat, 5/14/11, Edward Jones <ewjo...@cox.net> wrote: From: Edward Jones <ewjo...@cox.net> Subject: RE: Exploring the a Paradox To: "'Elo Turquier'" <cac...@yahoo.com>, "'list'" <listening-l@zrz.tu-berlin.de> Date: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 6:31 AM : Re: Exploring the a Paradox I don´t see paradox. By one hand, K said that insight and transformation is immediate, not an accumulative process through effort. By the other hand, he also said that it is necessary `to clean the room´ because an insensible body and a messy mind can not receive the insight and transform. This ´cleaning´ usually needs effort (to stop smoking and drugs and the insane living or to understand the ways of the self and its traps needs effort) but this effort must not come from a goal, from a wish of transformation. It must come from the passion which arises when we see the need of stopping our silly way of living. Then we just clean the room but, when doing it, there is not seeking for transformation. That´s what K said and I don´t see any paradox. I speculate that some persons who are "ready" for transformation and suffer a big crisis (be it the sting of a snake or a big sorrow or whatever) can clean the room and transform in an instant because of the energy developed by such crisis. The unique paradox I see is why we don´t clean the room when we see all the above. Perhaps some of us become indolent after understanding that the seeking and the effort will not lead us to transformation; indolent persons convert they room in a mess. K said that a natural discipline, a lack of indolence, is necessary. And perhaps some of us can not stop our habits and clean our room because it would interfere our job and relationships. Elo ```` Well spoken Elo, and to use my words as to ‘clean your room’ : “Speak the truth in your daily life impeccably”. That action ignites the Transformational energy, however as you stated it needs done so as to speak truth, (being real) not to Transform. Edward --- On Tue, 5/10/11, Yiming Zhang <yiming_zhang2...@yahoo.com> wrote:Exploring the ParadoxYiming Zhang Sat, 07 May 2011 21:00:20 -0700Below is an excerpt of Michael Krohnen's reflection that I would like to discuss with anyone who is stuck like him as well as with those on that other shore. "As we listen to Krishnamurti and study the significance of his teachings, we often cannot help but be struck by what appears to be a paradox. …his insistence on immediate ‘insight’ and hence ‘transformation’, and thereby his denial of any gradual approach, appears to pose the greatest conundrum and difficulty. I have studied his work for many years, even decades, and yet I’m still waiting for that tremendous revolution in my consciousness. On the other hand, he again and again urges us not to seek, not to expect anything, not to set up a goal or an end to be achieved, however noble and transcendent it may be."
