See annotations below...

Norm
S/V Bandersnatch
Lying Julington Creek
30 07.695N 081 38.484W



The fire triangle is dead, long live the fire quadrangle which adds the 
“Ignition Energy” to get the fire started.  Others use “chemical reaction” but 
it isn't always – such as an electrical fire.  Once started, you're down the 
three legs to maintain it.  If the Ignition Energy isn't removed, you may well 
have a rekindle.
 
Avoid starting the fire in the place.  Sometimes easier said than done but 
proper maintenance and safety precautions eliminate most fires before they 
begin. 


Norm - Agreed totally.


Be prepared to respond quickly and accurately.  Have adequate training and 
equipment.  


Norm - Agreed.  That's why I created and installed the duct and fan to blow 
fresh air into my engine room - to enable me to "respond quickly and 
accurately".

I think my next move will be to have a wired smoke alarm system that will sound 
an alarm everywhere on the boat loud enough to awaken everyone and indicate 
where the fire is.


Do NOT add air to the engine room if there’s a fire.  You're only feed it more 
oxygen an increase the fire. 


Norm - Here I disagree.  I believe that whether or not I blow fresh air into 
the engine room, or any other enclosed space, the fire will proceed at about 
the same rate.  I believe it is more important to get to the heart of the fire 
quickly.  In face, once the electricity is shut off to an electrical fire, the 
fire will be a less active smoldering fire where the primary problem will be 
smoke hiding the heart of the problem.


Emergency stop all equipment.  Isolate the engine room from fuel and 
electricity (remote shutoffs). 


Norm - Not necessarily all equipment.  If underway safe navigation requirements 
may have priority, such as passing traffic, entering an inlet or passing 
through a tight or very active channel, the main engine may be left on.  It is 
not likely that the engine itself is the fire problem.  While I already have 
electrical shutoffs for the Main Buss, I do like the idea of an Emergency 
system to supply things such as emergency lighting, the ER venting fan, and the 
fresh water pump that would be useful in a fire situation.  Switches outside 
the most likely fire spaces to control these devices would be used.


Use the fire extinguisher or installed extinguishing system in the engine 
compartment.  Give it a little time to work.  Opening the hatch/door too soon 
could start the fire anew. 


Norm - For an electrical fire, fresh water would be my first choice because it 
penetrates well and is a very easy cleanup.  Once the power is off, the 
insulation just smolders and is easily cooled off with water.  Same for wood 
and insulation.  I have watched boats burn to the waterline and sink due to an 
electrical fire that was not aggressively attended to.  Since there is already 
plenty of air in the area opening a door/hatch will have little effect.


Don't ventilate unless/until you're prepared to deal with a bigger fire.  
Instead, get more extinguishers or have a spray (not full stream) hose ready. 


Norm - Ventilation is necessary to comply with CT's Rule One, "respond quickly 
and accurately".  I have to know where the fire is, be able to get to it, and 
to put it out.  I can't see through smoke.  I just don't buy the "make the fire 
room airtight and the fire will go out, open the doors and the fire will bloom" 
approach.  One of the first things firemen do in a burning building is smash 
out the windows.  Virtually all people die from smoke long before the fire 
cooks them.


While waiting thirty seconds or so, do (minimum) Pan-Pan announcement. 


Norm - I will do nothing to deliberately attract the attention of cops unless 
absolutely necessary because their "help" can (and sometimes has) make the 
situation worse.  I must be judicious in asking for help of all kinds.  It is 
not just cops.  I have also had problems made worse by well intentioned "Good 
Samaritans".  Judgement is needed, and unfortunately, good judgement is learned 
by making bad decisions.  That is just life.  The trick is to start small so 
bad decisions result in small harm.  Walk before running.  

If you are ever in a position to help someone the first concern is flotation 
for anyone in the water, then a line to any vessel drifting onto a violent 
grounding situation, like rocks in swell.   Other than that, proceed 
deliberately, establishing communication first.



Attempt to evaluate condition of the compartment before opening door (sight 
glass, porthole, etc.  If you can't check first, be prepared when opening the 
door for flames to start up quickly and to have a fair amount of smoke exit. 


Norm -  I agree completely.

 
Dark smoke is incomplete combustion (oxygen starved fire).  White smoke is 
complete combustion/steam. 



Norm - Perhaps this is most true in a house fire.  On a boat some normally 
progressing fires can be very smoky.  In my electrical fire the Styrofoam was 
very smoky with little flame.  Electrical fires are also very smoky with little 
flame even though they are getting plenty of air.  Diesel wicking up on 
something and burning can be very smoky like a oil lamp with the wick turned up 
too high.



Use the hose to spray water.  Turn the hose in a circular pattern.  That will 
cut down on smoke and reduce the temperature of the room.  It could reduce the 
temperature enough to extinguished the fire as the small spray droplets will 
absorb heat faster (than a full stream) by turning to steam (which itself can 
burn so be careful). 


Norm - Agreed.  I have seen gasoline fires put out with a big fan spray of 
water just cooling the fire right out.


Dewater, check for damage.  Fix root cause. 

Reduce grog level. 


Norm -  For me it would be: Dewater, stabilize everything, then Increase Grog 
Level to celebrate doing everything right and surviving a potential disaster.  
Repairs (including "Fix root cause.") tomorrow, including of course, a full 
report to our friends on the LIst for their forewarning.  


 
 
CT
30°24'43.07"N
88°34'1.90"W


P.S. - Thank you CT, for such an intelligent and lively discussion.  This is 
just the thing the List was created for.



 
_______________________________________________
Liveaboard mailing list
[email protected]
To adjust your membership settings over the web 
http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard
To subscribe send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/

To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]

The Mailman Users Guide can be found here 
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html

Reply via email to