...but what he is sharing is his legal interpretation of the facts as he see
them.
Agreed - however, I see no citations, no case law, nothing to back up his
opinion - my reading of this issue is that 1982 - and this is noted in my
article by one of my sources - gives Americans a specific right to sue
government officials for improper conduct, i.e. for unjust or illegal
enforcement of a law - a law which, btw, may or may NOT be legal.
The original idea behind the statue was to provide to the people a means to
defend their civil rights - most specifically, in racially oriented issues.
However, as case law has developed - I might even say evolved, the statute has
found favour in the courts in other areas.
The point is - a civil servant cannot unjustly prosecute legislation against
anyone - and if he does, he/she is open to a civil suit on a PERSONAL basis -
as are the individual's bosses, right up to the head of the organization: the
mayor, governor, etc.
No one wants to get sued and risk losing their home, etc. - so the buck gets
passed up from the water cop just doing his duty, to where it belongs - in the
laps of the city councils, mayors, etc. who are causing us all this trouble.
That's where the strength of 1982 is....it forces the leaders to be accountable
on a personal basis - where it counts. No hiding behind 'immunity'.
It's even, dare I say it, kind of 'American', in the classic sense.
Wally
Political correctness is the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean
end.
________________________________
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 6:10:36 PM
Subject: Liveaboard Digest, Vol 16, Issue 3
Send Liveaboard mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Suggestions please (Sam Densler)
2. Re: Suggestions please (Ed Kelly)
3. Dealing with the laws.... (Wally)
4. Re: Dealing with the laws.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
5. Re: Suggestions please ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
6. Re: Dealing with the laws.... (Lee)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:38:49 -0500
From: Sam Densler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Suggestions please
To: liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ed,
Gina and I just ran the Okeechobee Waterway in our PDQ36 sailing
catamaran and had a glorious trip. Have you tried that route? Although
you are already a bit south to come north but what a beautiful run. 49
ft air draft is the limiting factor.
Not sure if you know the Ft. Myers/Cape Coral area but I was appalled at
the disrespect boaters have for one another over there. Miserable few
hours in an otherwise fantastic trip.
Sam
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Speaking of Florida, I need some local knowledge help. In a week or two,
> I'll be moving a sailing cat. from Ft. Lauderdale to Cape Coral by way
> of Channel 5. I need suggestions regarding going outside, or if the ICW
> is doable, how far off the Stream is flowing, and possible anchorages
> along the way. Planning on anchoring at night. Thanks for any help.
>
> Ed Schwerin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com
> <http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
****************************
Sam Densler
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.islandfx.com/lady
S/V Lady of the Lake
PDQ 36, Hull #15
Melbourne, FL
S/V Stories She Could Tell
Endeavour 37, Hull #454
Destroyed by Hurricane Frances 2004
Reborn and sailing again in 2007
****************************
"If you ever wonder why you ride the carousel,
you do it for the stories you can tell."
Jimmy Buffett
"Stories We Could Tell"
A1A
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:16:29 -0500
From: Ed Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Suggestions please
To: liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
We have visited Ft. Myers two years ago and liked the folks
there, but they seemed laid back to us. We know a bunch
of Iowans that come down to spend the winter months on their
boats in that area.
As to Ed Schwerin's request, we have enjoyed the East Coast
of Florida coming down. We primarily used the book Managing
the Waterway as a guide and advice book, along with other
charts, including the Intracoastal Waterway Chartbook. North
of Florida we liked the Chartracker coming down.
Those doing southern Florida passages will want to watch the
weather. A friend tipped us to the good info on
http://www.passageweather.com/
I will be happy to answer any direct questions or
help any way I can. Feel free to call anytime on the
Skype number below before we lose our internet when
we get offshore heading down the Islands toward So
America with stops in between.
Ed
Ed Kelly (& Sue Kelly)
USSV Angel Louise - a Catalac catamaran
Our Skype Phone (202) 657-6357
Email: EdKelly ("at" symbol) netins.net
On Dec 2, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Sam Densler wrote:
Ed,
Gina and I just ran the Okeechobee Waterway in our PDQ36 sailing
catamaran and had a glorious trip. Have you tried that route? Although
you are already a bit south to come north but what a beautiful run. 49
ft air draft is the limiting factor.
Not sure if you know the Ft. Myers/Cape Coral area but I was appalled at
the disrespect boaters have for one another over there. Miserable few
hours in an otherwise fantastic trip.
Sam
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Speaking of Florida, I need some local knowledge help. In a week or
> two,
> I'll be moving a sailing cat. from Ft. Lauderdale to Cape Coral by way
> of Channel 5. I need suggestions regarding going outside, or if the
> ICW
> is doable, how far off the Stream is flowing, and possible anchorages
> along the way. Planning on anchoring at night. Thanks for any help.
>
> Ed Schwerin
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com
> <http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-
> dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002>.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> Liveaboard mailing list
> Liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
> To adjust your membership settings over the web http://
> www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard
> To subscribe send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/
>
> To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/
> liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
>
> The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/
> software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
--
****************************
Sam Densler
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.islandfx.com/lady
S/V Lady of the Lake
PDQ 36, Hull #15
Melbourne, FL
S/V Stories She Could Tell
Endeavour 37, Hull #454
Destroyed by Hurricane Frances 2004
Reborn and sailing again in 2007
****************************
"If you ever wonder why you ride the carousel,
you do it for the stories you can tell."
Jimmy Buffett
"Stories We Could Tell"
A1A
_______________________________________________
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The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:33:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Wally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Liveaboard] Dealing with the laws....
To: liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ummm....Ed, don't shoot me, shoot Norm, I'm just the messenger.
However, I did take a great deal of time to research the issue, because I don't
particularly care for what FL is doing to we cruisers, including those of us
from Canada. Some comments to address your points:
First of all, as a Canuck, I likely have no standing with a civil rights issue
- and furthermore, because of my citizenship, it would make it far too easy for
an opponent to attack me on this issue, claiming I have no standing - why go
there? And lastly, I prefer not to be barred from entering the US for getting
mixed up in a fight of this nature - the offshore trip from the St. Lawrence is
a bit too much for my taste, tyvm. I'm not saying that would happen, but why
take that chance by pissing off some functionary?
The cases I've cited are clear indications that this law functions the way I've
noted. The laws guaranteeing the right to anchor are federal, and are being
usurped by local ordinances. When that usurpation violates a federal (or state)
law, it's wrong, and those who attempt to enforce it are IN the wrong - and
when they do that with full knowledge of their malfeasance, then they are
liable to Section 1982. It's that simple.
One only has to cite the case in Naples to prove the point - although the
appeal hasn't yet been heard (has it?) and it doesn't have standing as a
statewide precedent, it's still there and a strong indication of what the
state's anchoring legislation is intended to do.
My main point in sending this to the group is that I'm tired of hearing the
complaining here about anchoring - if you want to stop the anchoring nazis,
this is the way to do it. Whether you like the means or not, it IS the law of
your land. I think I've done my part in finding, researching and providing this
information.
Wally
p.s. fyi Ed, I am known as a proponent of free speech in Canada - and have been
a leader on the national scene regarding issues such as free speech, gay
marriage and our hate crime laws. I write a twice monthly column on those and
similar issues back home - even while I'm fleeing the cold and snow by heading
to the Bahamas. Some of those have been picked up by US media for
republication...
It is a good thing that Wally has been happy to take on
his own Canadian government for stamping out free
speech in the past, and now is willing to explain our US
laws to us, and propose a "You and Him fight it out solution."
__________________________________________________________________
Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo!
Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:43:04 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Dealing with the laws....
To: liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sounds to me like Wally is just trying to inform,, no harm,,,no foul.. I
feel He did good!
See you on the Waterways!
Capt. Sterling
_MV Sterling Lady_
(http://sterling.talkspot.com/aspx/templates/blank.aspx/msgid/2)
**************Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your
favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000006)
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:03:26 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Suggestions please
To: liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Sam and Ed. Thanks for the notes. The cat is a 38 Lagoon. It has too much
stick to do the cut. I intend to take it to Channel Five bridge off shore
from Fort Lauderdale, and then up the ICW on the west side to Cape Coral. I
would like somewhere to duck in for the nights and will possibly do the East
Coast ICW if the weather is bad. I would like to do maybe 50 miles a day, no
hurry. I can anchor at Channel Five bridge and I hope to get fuel there. I
would
like somewhere between Fort Lauderdale and Channel Five to anchor at night.
It appears to be a little over 100 miles, somewhere in the middle would be
nice. If I go inside, it won't likely be a problem unless there are restricted
areas. I intend to go outside from Fort Lauderdale to Biscayne Bay if at all
possible. I'll stop at Snake River or somewhere, and then again at Marco
Island and fuel, or maybe Naples. Then to Cape Coral. That's where I'll leave
it.
The owner will move it to something Springs near Tampa, not Tarpon Springs,
at some point to over winter. It stays in NC during the hurricane season.
Florida in the winter (hopefully the Bahamas for a while)
Ed Schwerin
**************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW
AOL.com.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002)
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:18:49 -0500
From: "Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Dealing with the laws....
To: <liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Wally,
I love to hear the sides of everyone that has something to say. I think
that Ed has a legal professional view point that he his sharing with the
group. It does not matter that you agree with what he has to say as his
interpretation of the law, but what he is sharing is his legal
interpretation of the facts as he see them. I don't think that he has a
view point on the issue ( I know that he has a preference) but he is sharing
his legal view point of the issues. FWIW
-Lee
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wally
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 5:34 PM
To: liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
Subject: [Liveaboard] Dealing with the laws....
Ummm....Ed, don't shoot me, shoot Norm, I'm just the messenger.
However, I did take a great deal of time to research the issue, because I
don't particularly care for what FL is doing to we cruisers, including those
of us from Canada. Some comments to address your points:
First of all, as a Canuck, I likely have no standing with a civil rights
issue - and furthermore, because of my citizenship, it would make it far too
easy for an opponent to attack me on this issue, claiming I have no standing
- why go there? And lastly, I prefer not to be barred from entering the US
for getting mixed up in a fight of this nature - the offshore trip from the
St. Lawrence is a bit too much for my taste, tyvm. I'm not saying that would
happen, but why take that chance by pissing off some functionary?
The cases I've cited are clear indications that this law functions the way
I've noted. The laws guaranteeing the right to anchor are federal, and are
being usurped by local ordinances. When that usurpation violates a federal
(or state) law, it's wrong, and those who attempt to enforce it are IN the
wrong - and when they do that with full knowledge of their malfeasance, then
they are liable to Section 1982. It's that simple.
One only has to cite the case in Naples to prove the point - although the
appeal hasn't yet been heard (has it?) and it doesn't have standing as a
statewide precedent, it's still there and a strong indication of what the
state's anchoring legislation is intended to do.
My main point in sending this to the group is that I'm tired of hearing the
complaining here about anchoring - if you want to stop the anchoring nazis,
this is the way to do it. Whether you like the means or not, it IS the law
of your land. I think I've done my part in finding, researching and
providing this information.
Wally
p.s. fyi Ed, I am known as a proponent of free speech in Canada - and have
been a leader on the national scene regarding issues such as free speech,
gay marriage and our hate crime laws. I write a twice monthly column on
those and similar issues back home - even while I'm fleeing the cold and
snow by heading to the Bahamas. Some of those have been picked up by US
media for republication...
It is a good thing that Wally has been happy to take on
his own Canadian government for stamping out free
speech in the past, and now is willing to explain our US
laws to us, and propose a "You and Him fight it out solution."
_____
Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new
<http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/> Yahoo! Canada Messenger
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