> From: "Daniel C. Hall" <[email protected]> > > I'm new to your group. I've just purchased a 45' Shearwater > schooner and am planning to live aboard her year-round on Cayuga Lake > (in central NY).
Welcome aboard. Congratulations on your new home. If the water temperature doesn't drop below 39F I would skip the de-icer. They are expensive and generally do more to protect the docks than the boats anyway. For year-round liveaboards in places with seasons (*grins*) I recommend you get a copy of the "The Warm Dry Boat" by Roger McAfee and a copy of "Getting Rid of Boat Odors" by Peggie Hall. I've lived aboard two winters in Annapolis and one in Washington DC. Before that I kept a boat in Occoquan VA. I sail year round so some of my solutions may not apply to you. Auspicious was built heavily insulated. Accordingly I haven't needed to add insulation; I concur with the opinions of others here to insulate. Take into account that ventilation is also critically important to both safety and comfort. Natural air circulation on boats is generally poor. That is one of the principal causes of the famous "warm head, cold feet" effect. Keep heat sources low and run a couple of small fans (which you probably have and will certainly want for summers anyway). For stand-alone heating (no shorepower, as when out sailing or anchored out) it is hard to beat a diesel heater. Bulkhead heaters are least expensive and relatively easy to install. They are point sources of heat and it can be a challenge to keep the boat temperature even. On a boat your size you could consider two bulkhead heaters and circulation fans. Furnace heaters, properly installed keep the boat evenly warm, are efficient and inexpensive to operate. They are rather expensive to purchase and install. You can get forced air or hydronic systems. Forced air is somewhat less complex to install and significantly less demanding of electrical power in operation than are hydronic systems. Hydronic systems circulate warm water to individual radiators in each space and give more fine control of temperature throughout the boat. They have the additional benefit of being able to generate hot domestic water. Most of the forced air units have a controller that reduces the fan speed to the minimum to maintain heat in the boat. This is a problem for liveaboards as the temperature in the furnace ends up being lower than optimum for burner life and your maintenance will increase. There is a modification for the Webasto AirTop furnace controller to cause the fan to run on high all the time. I presume the Espar can be similarly modified. Oil-filled radiators are among the most efficient forms of electric heat. They are a little slow to come up to temperature but are quiet and safe. The little ceramic box heaters are convenient and small. Regardless if you use electric heat check the heater cords and plugs and the shore power cords and plugs for undue heating. Be sure all the connections on your shore power are clean and tight. Corrosion leads to heating which leads to melting which can lead to fire. Check your marina contract for restrictions on the use of electric heat. A Type I MSD such as the Raritan Electroscan or older Lectra/San is the solution for year-round liveaboards. I don't see Cayuga Lake on the list of no-discharge-zones ( http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html ) so that option should be available to you. Your water heater should be located somewhere that the residual heat will do you some good. Mine is in the engine room and keeps the temperature in their quite reasonable throughout the winter. If you keep the boat warm -- especially with the lake water temperatures you described -- you shouldn't have to winterize much if anything. The only winterization I do is to disconnect and drain the transom shower. In short, I have a Webasto Airtop 3500 forced air diesel furnace to heat the boat. I do sometimes use my heat pumps in heating mode in Spring and Fall. I have a oil-filled electric radiator in storage in case the furnace has a problem and the water is too cold for the heat pumps. I use an Electroscan for waste treatment. I have two dorades, three mushroom vents, and a slatted companionway board to maintain ventilation. I've been quite comfortable through the last three winters. sail fast and eat well, dave S/V Auspicious lying Annapolis MD > I have developed plans for winterizing, heating, etc., but > would be most grateful for advice from anyone who has and is living > aboard in the colder northern climes. > Lake water temp shouldn't drop below 39 degrees. I'll be > hanging a de-icer, though I'm told that ice very rarely forms where > I'll be docked. > I'm particularly interested in your experiences with heating > solutions, especially as related to humidity levels (I'm somewhat > concerned about keeping humidity down so as to NOT encounter rain or > even moisture below). Propane is attractive because of cost, but > I've heard it can cause humidity problems. Electric I'm told is the > driest, but I worry about depending totally on shore power. > Also desired, would be experiences with either composting or > chemical portable toilets, as I'm assuming my 30 gallon tank would > fill long before the spring and am thus planning to winterize and not > use that. > Those are my main concerns at present, but I would love to > hear of any other advice you may have, OR of any resources of > applicable info you would recommend. > Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. > > Dan Hall > aboard "Apella" > on Cayuga Lake > > > > -- > Daniel C. Hall > Production Coordinator > Department of Theatre, Film, & Dance > Cornell University > 607/254-2702 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:25:06 -0400 > From: "'bella" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Wintering aboard > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Daniel, I have lived aboard for yrs. > you can insulate the boat with that rigid pink insulation that is fairly > cheap at home depot. > rugs on the cabin sole ... I have two or more layers that keep the floor > warm. > some of my tricks... > heating pad to put my feet on, or at the bottom of my bed.. > comforter with flannel sheets.. > heat lamp bulb in a clip on light that I sit under.. > heater that when it tips over it turns off..the small ceramic ones from > wally world are great.. size of a toaster. I shut off as much of the boat > as I can. > i have a 'hot pot" that I keep water in, it is not steam and it used for > hot tea and soup all winter. > cuddle duds or underarmor thermies are a must... wool booties.. > If you can get as close to the main gate as possible.. walking down icy > docks is no fun.. have your own supply of ice melter stuff. close to the > ,main gate, closer you are to the head and showers. > > COVER THE BOAT WITH A TARP... esp your cockpit, It will save you a lot of > shoveling and keep the snow melt out of the main cabin if there are any > leask.. turn the dark side off to help with heat. > > I will never ever spend another winter up here again.. to effing cold, and a > massive gianourmous pain in the backside.. too many clothes.. to much time > indoors cringing from the cold.. > > In any case, good luck.. > > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Daniel C. Hall <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello "Liveaboard Listserve," >> >> I'm new to your group. I've just purchased a 45' Shearwater >> schooner and am planning to live aboard her year-round on Cayuga Lake >> (in central NY). >> I have developed plans for winterizing, heating, etc., but >> would be most grateful for advice from anyone who has and is living >> aboard in the colder northern climes. >> Lake water temp shouldn't drop below 39 degrees. I'll be >> hanging a de-icer, though I'm told that ice very rarely forms where >> I'll be docked. >> I'm particularly interested in your experiences with heating >> solutions, especially as related to humidity levels (I'm somewhat >> concerned about keeping humidity down so as to NOT encounter rain or >> even moisture below). Propane is attractive because of cost, but >> I've heard it can cause humidity problems. Electric I'm told is the >> driest, but I worry about depending totally on shore power. >> Also desired, would be experiences with either composting or >> chemical portable toilets, as I'm assuming my 30 gallon tank would >> fill long before the spring and am thus planning to winterize and not >> use that. >> Those are my main concerns at present, but I would love to >> hear of any other advice you may have, OR of any resources of >> applicable info you would recommend. >> Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. >> >> Dan Hall >> aboard "Apella" >> on Cayuga Lake >> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C. Hall >> Production Coordinator >> Department of Theatre, Film, & Dance >> Cornell University >> 607/254-2702 >> _______________________________________________ >> Liveaboard mailing list >> [email protected] >> To adjust your membership settings over the web >> http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard >> To subscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/ >> >> To search the archives >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> The Mailman Users Guide can be found here >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html >> > > > > -- > IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) > named above and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or > unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of > humour or irrational religious beliefs. 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Let > it stand for 2 hours before icing. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/attachments/20090902/af3d4725/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:25:10 -0500 > From: ken <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Wintering aboard > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > >> I'm particularly interested in your experiences with heating >> solutions, especially as related to humidity levels (I'm somewhat >> concerned about keeping humidity down so as to NOT encounter rain or >> even moisture below). Propane is attractive because of cost, but >> I've heard it can cause humidity problems. Electric I'm told is the >> driest, but I worry about depending totally on shore power. >> Also desired, would be experiences with either composting or >> chemical portable toilets, as I'm assuming my 30 gallon tank would >> fill long before the spring and am thus planning to winterize and not >> use that. > > Reply; > Whatever you do, do NOT use an un-vented heater as first of all > regardless of what anyone says they all produce carbon monoxide with the > single exception of alcohol fuel. But even alcohol boat stove fuel is 5% > additives to insure volatility and get around taxes so it produces > noxious fumes also. I myself use and Origo heat pal heater but I > modified it so it is vented. It would be too expensive to burn that in > your bigger boat I think I would go with a vented propane unit in your > circumstances. Just make sure you have good vented outside tank storage > and good valves. The worst part of un-vented heaters is that they ALL > make LOTS OF CONDENSATION. So use only vented heaters. > > And get a CO detector anyway. > > As far as electric it is much cheaper and easier, but make sure to get a > good quality on preferably one that does not have red hot elements and > one with a safety switch for when it is knocked over and remember to > ALWAYS turn it off when you leave. Over the decades I have seen many > boats burn from heaters left one! You can keep things from freezing with > a light bulb. > > I have a deck pump out for my head and can manually pump the holding > tank into a portable container. No worse than compost provided it is > sealed well and easier to remove IMHO. -Ken > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:36:09 -0400 > From: Noel Russell <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Wintering aboard > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dan, > > Look into Hydronic Heat/Radiant flooring. 3 good names webasto (we do > not have), ITR Hurricane (we do have), and Kobala (very nice unti, needs > a large area in engine room though). Insulate using a concrete barrier > type insulation which involves bubble wrap on 2 sides plus mirrored > aluminum foil stuff (which I am installing) we live in NY Harbor and > have done it with a growing family for 3 years now. > > Noel > > Daniel C. Hall wrote: >> Hello "Liveaboard Listserve," >> >> I'm new to your group. I've just purchased a 45' Shearwater >> schooner and am planning to live aboard her year-round on Cayuga Lake >> (in central NY). >> I have developed plans for winterizing, heating, etc., but >> would be most grateful for advice from anyone who has and is living >> aboard in the colder northern climes. >> Lake water temp shouldn't drop below 39 degrees. I'll be >> hanging a de-icer, though I'm told that ice very rarely forms where >> I'll be docked. >> I'm particularly interested in your experiences with heating >> solutions, especially as related to humidity levels (I'm somewhat >> concerned about keeping humidity down so as to NOT encounter rain or >> even moisture below). Propane is attractive because of cost, but >> I've heard it can cause humidity problems. Electric I'm told is the >> driest, but I worry about depending totally on shore power. >> Also desired, would be experiences with either composting or >> chemical portable toilets, as I'm assuming my 30 gallon tank would >> fill long before the spring and am thus planning to winterize and not >> use that. >> Those are my main concerns at present, but I would love to >> hear of any other advice you may have, OR of any resources of >> applicable info you would recommend. >> Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. >> >> Dan Hall >> aboard "Apella" >> on Cayuga Lake >> >> >> >> > > -- > N.Y. Russell > "Java Powered Service" > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4390 (20090902) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > part000.txt - is OK > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 15:54:55 -0700 > From: Jaye Eldridge <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Wintering aboard > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > We have a Webasto hydronic heater, and it does a really nice job of > keeping the boat warm and dry in Anacortes, WA. > On Sep 2, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Noel Russell wrote: > >> Dan, >> >> Look into Hydronic Heat/Radiant flooring. 3 good names webasto (we do >> not have), ITR Hurricane (we do have), and Kobala (very nice unti, >> needs >> a large area in engine room though). Insulate using a concrete barrier >> type insulation which involves bubble wrap on 2 sides plus mirrored >> aluminum foil stuff (which I am installing) we live in NY Harbor and >> have done it with a growing family for 3 years now. >> >> Noel >> >> Daniel C. Hall wrote: >>> Hello "Liveaboard Listserve," >>> >>> I'm new to your group. I've just purchased a 45' Shearwater >>> schooner and am planning to live aboard her year-round on Cayuga Lake >>> (in central NY). >>> I have developed plans for winterizing, heating, etc., but >>> would be most grateful for advice from anyone who has and is living >>> aboard in the colder northern climes. >>> Lake water temp shouldn't drop below 39 degrees. I'll be >>> hanging a de-icer, though I'm told that ice very rarely forms where >>> I'll be docked. >>> I'm particularly interested in your experiences with heating >>> solutions, especially as related to humidity levels (I'm somewhat >>> concerned about keeping humidity down so as to NOT encounter rain or >>> even moisture below). Propane is attractive because of cost, but >>> I've heard it can cause humidity problems. Electric I'm told is the >>> driest, but I worry about depending totally on shore power. >>> Also desired, would be experiences with either composting or >>> chemical portable toilets, as I'm assuming my 30 gallon tank would >>> fill long before the spring and am thus planning to winterize and not >>> use that. >>> Those are my main concerns at present, but I would love to >>> hear of any other advice you may have, OR of any resources of >>> applicable info you would recommend. >>> Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. >>> >>> Dan Hall >>> aboard "Apella" >>> on Cayuga Lake >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> N.Y. Russell >> "Java Powered Service" >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4390 (20090902) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> part000.txt - is OK >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Liveaboard mailing list >> [email protected] >> To adjust your membership settings over the web >> http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard >> To subscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/ >> >> To search the archives >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> The Mailman Users Guide can be found here >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Liveaboard mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > End of Liveaboard Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2 > ***************************************** > _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over the web http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
