> I specifically did not try to pick the solution protocol in this draft.

That is good.

But it would not hurt if you study a few various architectural options and
add to the document a table comparison of pros and cons of each approach.

And surely the two I listed are far from exhaustive list.

Regards,
R.




On Mon, Oct 12, 2026 at 11:41 PM Joel Halpern <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, I did talk to a number of people in operations at ISPs to see if
> there was itnerest.  While I can't speak for them, I was encouraged by what
> I heard.
>
> As for alternatives I did not explore, without knowing what two you are
> thinking of I can't comment on whether I missesd them or consider them
> candidate solutions to be evalauted if the problem is to be addressed.  I
> specifically did not try to pick the solution protocol in this draft.
>
> Yours,
>
> Joel
> On 10/12/2026 5:14 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>
> Joel,
>
> I think the vast majority of the audience agree and understand that
> routing protocols should not be overloaded with opaque information. Just
> look at recent proposals for FSv2 iextensions n BGP and you will likely
> fall off your chair.
>
> But there is always the least effort path ... if TCP session is there or
> if IGP flooding is there let's use it. And why is that ? Simply
> because deploying a new transport requires significant effort. So much more
> than anything a fair amount of cheerleading is required to make it happen.
>
> As to the content of your draft what seems to be clearly missing are two
> approaches which has been well documented and one even is available as an
> open source code. I think it would be good to include those and perhaps
> even discuss them in your draft.
>
> *Namely: *
>
> Tony's DROID: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-lsr-droid-00
> Meta's OPENR: https://github.com/facebook/openr
>
> Thx,
> Robert
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2026 at 11:03 PM Joel Halpern <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> The basic idea is that the alternative distribution protocol is not the
>> existing IGPs.  As such and assuming there is community interest in
>> addressing the problem, I did not want to prejudge whether the work would
>> be in rtgwg, in lsr, or in a new working group.  Les is correct that once
>> there is such a protocol, the decision of what data uses which one seems
>> appropriate to LSR.  And if the community decides that it is interested,
>> and that the work belongs in LSR, then I am happy to work on the offloading
>> protocol in LSR.  But it is not for me to tell the routing community which
>> working group should own a piece of new protocol work.
>>
>> So, rephrasing the above, it seems to me that judging whether there is
>> interest, and deciding where the work belongs, under the current
>> structures, to be appropriate for rtgwg.
>>
>> If the rtgwg and lsr chairs tell me I misjudged, I am happy to discuss
>> wherever it belongs.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Joel
>> On 10/12/2026 4:57 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>>
>> My confusion comes from the point that draft talks about IGPs and proper
>> WG is LSR WG to discuss this.
>>
>> I was asking since you apparently want to proceed with it in RTGWG that
>> more then IGPs will be covered. And that actually may not be a bad idea as
>> offloading some stuff from IGP and BGP may land into pub-sub common message
>> bus for distribution.
>>
>> Thx,
>> r.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2026 at 10:54 PM Joel Halpern <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am making no comment about BGP by the title.  I am drafting some text
>>> to better explain the relationship with BGP.
>>>
>>> Regarding the title, it is draft-halpern-rtgwg because problem statement
>>> dispatch for routing, as I understand it, is an RTGWG function.  I didn't
>>> add -igp- to the filename because I dislike creating long draft names.  For
>>> me, the draft filename never gives the whole story, so I didn't worry about
>>> being completely precise in the filename.
>>>
>>> Yorus,
>>>
>>> Joel
>>> On 10/12/2026 4:51 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Joel,
>>>
>>> Can you explain why the title of the draft is not consistent with its
>>> filename ?
>>>
>>> Specifically you are talking about IGP ... but the title says rtgwg ?
>>>
>>> Are you trying to say that "The IGP is not a Dump Truck" but BGP is ?
>>>
>>> Thx,
>>> R.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 24, 2026 at 4:06 PM Joel Halpern <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Calling your attention to a draft I just submitted, with some
>>>> co-authors.
>>>>
>>>> It is a problem statement draft, outlining an approach to improving IGP
>>>> robustness by moving quasi-stable information not need for routing
>>>> convergence out of the IGP.  The basic question is whether the community is
>>>> interesting in improving this behavior.  If so, we can decide whether it
>>>> goes to LSR or gets a new working group.
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Joel
>>>>
>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>> Subject: I-D Action: draft-halpern-rtgwg-not-a-dump-truck-00.txt
>>>> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2026 07:02:04 -0700
>>>> From: [email protected]
>>>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>> Internet-Draft draft-halpern-rtgwg-not-a-dump-truck-00.txt is now
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> Title: The IGP is not a Dump Truck
>>>> Authors: Joel Halpern
>>>> Andrew Alston
>>>> Name: draft-halpern-rtgwg-not-a-dump-truck-00.txt
>>>> Pages: 8
>>>> Dates: 2026-09-24
>>>>
>>>> Abstract:
>>>>
>>>> This document explores addressing the problem of using an IGP to
>>>> carry arbitrary information, often referred to using the phrase "the
>>>> IGP is not a dump truck". It describes the kinds of information
>>>> carried in an IGP and proposes an approach to changing the system.
>>>>
>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-halpern-rtgwg-not-a-dump-truck/
>>>>
>>>> There is also an HTML version available at:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-halpern-rtgwg-not-a-dump-truck-00.html
>>>>
>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
>>>> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> I-D-Announce mailing list -- [email protected]
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> rtgwg mailing list -- [email protected]
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>>>>
>>>
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