Hi,
Thank you for posting this article! I think it's one of the first "what
should actually happen" pieces that have appeared on this list in a
long time. It looks forward, it makes a plan! However, without more
political power, I don't see how digital rights advocates can build the
structures you are suggesting. And I don't--yet--see where that power
can come from.
What I see at the moment is civil society (despite many brilliant people
and groups working on these issues) seeming to lose political and
cultural power around issues of internet governance and accountability.
For instance, Stanford University has stopped supporting the Stanford
Internet Observatory. Here's a good interview with Renée DiResta, a
former researcher there, on Hard Fork
<https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/21/podcasts/surgeon-general-warning.html>, where she tells that story.
Also: If there's no transparency, there can be no accountability.
Because not every company is 100% honest.
For instance:
<https://www.macstories.net/stories/wired-confirms-perplexity-is-bypassing-efforts-by-websites-to-block-its-web-crawler/>
/A WIRED analysis and one
<https://rknight.me/blog/perplexity-ai-is-lying-about-its-user-agent/> carried out by developer Robb Knight suggest that Perplexity is able to [scrape websites, like Condé Nast sites, that it says it won't] partly through apparently ignoring a widely accepted web standard known as the Robots Exclusion Protocol to surreptitiously scrape areas of websites that operators do not want accessed by bots, despite claiming <https://docs.perplexity.ai/docs/perplexitybot> that it won’t. WIRED observed a machine tied to Perplexity—more specifically, one on an Amazon server and almost certainly operated by Perplexity—doing this on wired.com <http://wired.com> and across other Condé Nast publications./
I'm still thinking about this. What are the channels, the tools, the
levers of power available to civil society? How can a private company be
held accountable when no laws exist (maybe?) to make it so?
Thanks again, Lina,
Kate
On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 5:29 PM Lina Srivastava
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks for the discussion. A few months ago I wrote a piece for SSIR
<https://ssir.org/articles/entry/ai-building-community-governance#>
advocating for civil society funders and orgs to address tech co
power consolidation through community-led governance. This speaks to
accountability more broadly than to specifics of the
technology/algorithms, so I'm not sure if this directly answers your
questions, Kate, but sending it in case it is of interest.
Lina
On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 11:29 PM Paola Di Maio
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Kate
thanks for bringing up the questions, which make sense
But technically, they may be */'ill posed' /*(imho)
That is because there is a mixup and overlap in
terminology/concepts/implementations adopting the same
terminology applied to different concepts etc
All algorithms are in principle auditable even when they are
proprietary, and the only way companies can maintain their
competitive advantage is by keeping he algorithms proprietary,
or de facto, a trade secret
You cannot make any laws against trade secrets afaik
Some of these algorithms are useful and amazing even, technically
but for example, I started to notice that when I leave a
whatsapp message to someone
the content of my message is picked and turns up into the
adveritisng on FB and in turn
via some agreement that I may not know about, it turns up in
adverts on youtube, google search etc
To what extent are the search results that I obtain skewed based
on my user profile, which is in turn based on my login
credentials, which is in turn based on the apps/web services
that i use?
I would say it's a lot skewed. how so? by a mixture of
algorithms , commercial agreements, trade secrets which are all
legal
I think one face of the blockchain may be to disrupt this
entanglement by encryptions and fragmentation
but the reality, is that the master key is only visible to some,
and THEY are building the machine, in the name of
democratization of the internet, go figure
My advice would be, start auditing individual functions
(input-process-output) for each task/app
then build the map of the ecosystem entanglement from there,
keeping in mind that by means of generative algorithm
the map is constantly reconfiguring itself, and not traceable (a
property of the blockchain, auch)
and NOT REPLICABLE (a property of generative algos)
Very very thorny entanglement, the best we can do is to stay on
top of things
(scratching head)
On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 4:52 AM Kate Krauss <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi,
I'm trying to understand the lay of the land.
So, generative AI company algorithms are proprietary, like
Facebook's and Tiktok's have been all along. Companies still
aren't sharing algorithms with researchers, even if they
sign a non-disclosure agreement (still true?). If we can't
see it, we can't analyze it, regulate it, amend it, or make
it accountable. I've always been surprised that people don't
leak them.
Companies could be compelled to make their algorithms more
transparent if there were a law that requires it, but so far
there's no law.
Paola, if your field is algorithmic auditability, do you
ever see proprietary algorithms? If so, how?
Also:
Earlier today Lina Khan, head of the US Federal Trade
Commission, tweeted:
--- Today @FTC <https://x.com/FTC> referred its case against
TikTok to the Civil Division at
@TheJusticeDept <https://x.com/TheJusticeDept>
. Our investigation found reason to believe that TikTok is
violating or about to violate the FTC Act and the Children’s
Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA).
----
As a complete non-lawyer, I was interested to see that
TikTok was getting in trouble partly because the FTC
believes they are/*about to violate these laws. */ Users are
about to get injured by Tiktok, predicts the FTC. I didn't
know a company could be sued for something it hasn't done
wrong yet.
If so, could this apply to generative AI companies?
Is there a lawyer who might answer that question?
-Kate
ps: Here's the link for such a lawyer to sign up for this
list: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt
<https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt>and for us,
here are short explanations ofthe FTC Act
<https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/statutes/federal-trade-commission-act>and
COPPA
<https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/rules/childrens-online-privacy-protection-rule-coppa>.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 12:36 AM Kate Krauss
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Yes, that's an interesting idea, Hans.
Former NSA chief Keith Alexander, who has a history of
lying about spying on Americans, is on Amazon's board.
-Kate
On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 12:21 AM Klein, Hans K
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The case of OpenAI is one instance of a general
trend in which national security agencies overlap
with IT/media corporations. ____
__ __
The same thing happened at Twitter, I believe:
https://twitterfiles.substack.com/p/1-thread-the-twitter-files
<https://twitterfiles.substack.com/p/1-thread-the-twitter-files>____
__ __
It would be quite useful and interesting for someone
to perform some non-partisan research on such ties
in general.____
__ __
Hans Klein____
Georgia Tech____
__ __
__ __
*From:*LT <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> *On
Behalf Of *Paola Di Maio
*Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2024 10:46 PM
*To:* Isaac M <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Cc:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>; Kate Krauss
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; LT
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>;
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>; Andrés
Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:* Re: [liberationtech] OpenAI adds
Trump-appointed former NSA director to its board____
__ __
Thank you Kate for bringing up this issue here____
How do you think this should be tackled? My work is
in algorithmic auditablity, awareness and
explainability____
trying to develop more understanding and possibly
standards____
what do people suggest?____
__ __
/Note for Sawsan: I think the reference to the
president here was purely related to the person
being part of that administration at the time?/____
__ __
/Paola Di Maio W3C AI KR CG/____
__ __
__ __
__ __
On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 4:41 AM Isaac M
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:____
We should never place our hopes on company
boards functioning in the public interest. The
recent debacles at Boeing and Tesla demonstrate
this. In Tesla's case, the board and
shareholders with meme greed have only indulged
Elon Musk, further bolstering his feudalistic
tendencies.____
__ __
On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 8:19 AM Kate Krauss
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:____
So OpenAI has a conflicted mission, a weak
board, an insanely risky goal, and no
accountability (am I missing something?). Oh
right, their product is evolving at a
million miles an hour.
They've shed many of the staff and board
members who cared most about safety. ____
__ __
Microsoft, their funder, could reign them in
but it is motivated instead to egg them on.
And now they've got a board member with very
close ties to two US presidents and one of
the world's most powerful spy agencies. The
keys are on the table, as Juan Benet would
say.____
__ __
I don't think OpenAI could be getting more
press coverage--the coverage has been
near-constant and pretty responsible. ____
__ __
Are the NGOs working on this having any
luck? ____
__ __
-Kate____
__ __
__ __
On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 12:27 PM Andrés
Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
Sorry but “accountability” runs afoul of
profit so many times, and the “mission”
of OpenAI is DoubleSpeak:____
__ __
OpenAI is an AI research and deployment
company. Our mission is to ensure that
artificial general intelligence benefits
all of humanity.____
__ __
Regards / Saludos / Grato____
__ __
Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes____
Pronouns: He/Him/They/Them (equal
preference)____
____
On Jun 16, 2024, at 10:52 AM, Kate
Krauss <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
____
Hi,____
__ __
There is currently no accountability
for the decisions at OpenAI, to my
knowledge. What has to happen for
that to change? The board is not
working. ____
__ __
How can the company be held
accountable? I'm especially
interested in the thoughts of policy
people and lawyers on this list.
And yes, choosing a spy chief for
the board is a big red flag.____
__ __
Sincerely,____
__ __
Kate____
__ __
On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 12:16 AM
Sawsan Gad <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
Hello friends —____
__ __
I was so happy when
Liberationtech was resurrected,
and of course a former head of
NSA on AI is something that
needs to covered and discussed. ____
__ __
However, I hope we’re not
quickly degenerating into
Trump-this Trump-that (and
sensationalizing the title, only
to realize the guy “was asked to
continue under Biden” buried
deep down inside). (!)____
__ __
Journalists may need to do this
kind of (… work..?) to keep
their jobs — god knows for how
long. Normal people, not so
much. ____
__ __
People are working very hard to
restore a basic level of trust
among family and friends, after
the several political and civil
abuses of the last few years.
Let’s please keep good spirits
and stay relevant on the things
that we all care about, and not
assume political leanings of
others, and that magic words
will evoke certain reactions à
la Pavlov. ____
__ __
Now, back to discussing OpenAI.
:)____
(Sorry Kate if that’s too
forward. All respect to you,
thank you for sharing the
article). ____
__ __
Sawsan Gad____
PhD student - Geoinformatics____
George Mason University____
__ __
__ __
On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 8:05 PM
Kate Krauss <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:____
Sam Altman, one of AI's
most important leaders--at
least for now--is a man with
incredible contacts,
wonderful social skills, and
apparently few scruples.
Appointing the former head
of the NSA to OpenAI's board
demonstrates that this
company is unaccountable.
This company puts
Americans--and everybody
else in the world--at risk.____
__ __
How can OpenAI be made
accountable? The stakes are
so high. Its board has
already failed to contain
it. ____
__ __
Not even the worst part of
this, but new board member
Nakasone's hobby horse is
that the US must out-compete
China in generative AI.____
__ __
-Kate____
__ __
ps: What happens at OpenAI
if Trump is re-elected?
*Washington Post:
OpenAI adds Trump-appointed
former NSA director to its board
*
Paul M. Nakasone joins
OpenAI’s board following a
dramatic shakeup, as a tough
regulatory environment
pushes tech companies to
board members with military
expertise.
By Cat Zakrzewski and Gerrit
De Vynck
Updated June 14, 2024 at
12:16 p.m.
EDT|Published June 13, 2024
at 5:00 p.m. ED____
__ __
The board appointment of
retired Army Gen. Paul M.
Nakasone comes as OpenAI
tries to quell criticism of
its security practices.
(Ricky Carioti/The
Washington Po____
OpenAI has tapped former
U.S. Army general and
National Security Agency
director Paul M. Nakasone to
join its board of directors,
the continuation of a
reshuffling spurred by CEO
Sam Altman’s temporary
ousting in November.
Nakasone, a Trump appointee
who took over the NSA in
2018 and was asked to
continue in the role under
Biden, will join the OpenAI
board’s Safety and Security
Committee, which the company
stood up in late May to
evaluate and improve its
policies to test models and
curb abuse.
The appointment of the
career Army officer, who was
the longest-serving leader
of U.S. Cybercom, comes as
OpenAI tries to quell
criticism of its security
practices — including from
some of the company’s
current and former employees
who allege the ChatGPT-maker
prioritizes profits over the
safety of its products. The
company is under increasing
scrutiny following the
exodus of several key
employees and a public
letter that called for
sweeping changes to its
practices.
“OpenAI occupies a unique
role, facing cyber threats
while pioneering
transformative technology
that could revolutionize how
institutions combat them,"
Nakasone told the Post in a
statement. "I am looking
forward to supporting the
company in safeguarding its
innovations while leveraging
them to benefit society at
large.”
Amid the public backlash,
OpenAI has said it is hiring
more security engineers
and increasing
transparency about its
approach to securing the
systems that power its
research. Last week, a
former employee, Leopold
Aschenbrenner, said on a
podcast that he had written
a memo to OpenAI’s board
last year because he felt
the company’s security was
“egregiously insufficient”
to stop a foreign government
from taking control of its
technology by hacking.
Security researchers have
also pointed out that
chatbots are vulnerable
to “prompt injection”
attacks, in which hackers
can break in to a company’s
computer system through a
chatbot that is hooked up to
its internal databases. Some
companies also ban their
employees from using ChatGPT
out of concern that OpenAI
may not be able to properly
protect sensitive
information fed into its
chatbot.
Nakasone joins OpenAI’s
board following a dramatic
board shake-up. Amid a
tougher regulatory
environment and increased
efforts to digitize
government and military
services, tech companies are
increasingly seeking board
members with military
expertise. Amazon’s board
includes Keith Alexander,
who was previously the
commander of U.S. Cyber
Command and the director of
the NSA. Google Public
Sector, a division of the
company that focuses on
selling cloud services to
governments, also has
retired generals on its
board. (Amazon founder Jeff
Bezos owns The Washington
Post.)____
Until January, OpenAI had a
ban on the use of its
products for “military and
warfare.” The company says
the prohibition was removed
to allow for military uses
that align with its values,
including disaster relief
and support for veterans.
“Our policies have
consistently prohibited the
use of our tools including
our API and ChatGPT to
‘develop or use weapons,
injure others or destroy
property,’” OpenAI
spokesperson Liz Bourgeois
said. “That has not
changed.” Nakasone did not
respond to a request for
comment.
Nakasone brings deep
Washington experience to the
board, as the company tries
to build a more
sophisticated government
relations strategy and push
the message to policymakers
that U.S. AI companies are a
bulwark against China.
“We want to make sure that
American companies ... have
the lead in the innovation
of this technology, I think
the disruptive technology of
this century,” Nakasone said
when asked about AI during a
recent Post Live interview.____
__ __
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