Hi, I'm not sure about anyone else, But I'm struggling to keep up with the emails and PM's going from person to person. I've gotten as many parts as I can glean into one email so that we have the information that is to hand.
Hi Jens > No. I did not get any email before this one. > This is shocking. Yes, I just learned from someone that Ubuntu teams are > having some issues with Muktware. I do want to understand what the > issues are and want to address them immediately. > I have been covering Linux since 2005 and our goal at Muktware is to > promote Linux and open source, especially Ubuntu. We have published 100s > of stories to promote Ubuntu and help out users in using Ubuntu. We > published two full manuals helping users in installing Ubuntu. > So, it sad to see that Ubuntu community has taken such a decision. I > would very much want to open a channel of discussion and understand the > issues. We don't want to harm or hurt the hard work done by the Ubuntu > teams. Our intentions are always to assist Linux/Ubuntu users. So, I > will really appreciate if you can help use find a solution to this problem. > If you have problems with some stories, we will remove them. But, please > do tell us what are the issues so that we can fix them. > As far as mailing list is concerned, I don't understand the accusation > of spamming. > Looking forward to your positive reply. > Best > Swapnil Bhartiya > > > Jens, > I just thought I'd compile a little list of improvements I'd like to see > in Muktware's current procedures to try and explain my concerns. I don't > think these items would prevent any team from interacting with Muktware but > I would definitely encourage people to be cautious in providing any > favourable treatment to them over any other group. If they were somehow > able to reverse their current trends it might be something to consider in > the future. > My first interaction with Muktware was on the Lubuntu mailing list so I'll > start there. The first post I saw from Swapnil on Muktware's behalf was the > announcement that they wanted to work on a Ubuntu Manual [1]. I personally > was at the time quite involved in the Lubuntu documentation effort so I > responded to raise my concerns of the lack of collaboration shown [2]. My > main cause for concern was that it seemed to work against the Ubuntu Code > of Conduct [3] on the sub point of "Be Collaborative". My issues fell on > deaf ears as you can see by Swapnil's response [4] they didn't even respond > to my concerns but rather went off on another tangent. > My second main point of contention is the use of Ubuntu teams to spam > their own website. While there have been half hearted attempts at linking > them to support [5] instead of providing the full and helpful explanation > in a simple email they linked to their own revenue raising website which to > me is a very dubious practice. I could trawl through more mailing list logs > to give more examples but I'm sorry I'm a little short of time currently. > Then there is the obvious spamming and trolling of the largest Ubuntu > mailing list [6] in which they not only spam their revenue raising website > but they also post derogatory opinions about Ubuntu without providing any > evidence to support their claims. Granted they did attempt to apologise of > sorts [7] but really, accidentally spamming 5000 users doesn't come across > very sincere. > In summary, while I respect Muktware's right to publish whatever they > would like to on their website I detest the methods used to both attempt > divert Ubuntu contributors to their pet projects that they generate revenue > off and the methods they use to push their content in front of other Ubuntu > users against mailing list guidelines. Should this practice cease I might > be swayed to recommend them to others but currently my only recommendation > is to tread carefully. Please let me know if you would like any further > details or comment. > [1] https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg04565.html > [2] https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg04502.html > [3] http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct > [4] https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg04506.html > [5] > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2012-January/256813.html > [6] > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2012-January/256856.html > [7] > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2012-January/256862.html > > > > > Hi, > danke fuer die Info. Wie ich der Mail von Jared entnehme, besteht die > Spam-Anschuldigung fuer die Ubuntu-Users-Liste. Ich denke, dass > Schwierigkeiten dort geloest werden sollten, wo sie auftreten. Die > lubuntu-Mailingliste wurde nicht gespamt, soweit ich das sehen kann. > Eine kurze Aussage, dass du gegenwaertig keine Resourcen hast zu > kooperieren und dass das Comms-Team sich momentan eher auf direkte > Ubuntu-Projekte wie UWN etc. konzentrieren will, waere, denke ich, besser > gewesen. Dazu die Aussage, dass es Spam-Verdacht auf der Ubuntu-Users-Liste > gegeben hat (Links von Jared haettest du mitsenden koennen.). Deshalb > moechtest du erst einmal abwarten. Ob es zutrifft oder nicht - die > verschiedenen Ansichten koennen ja dort (auf der Ubuntu-Users-Liste) > geklaert werden. > Bisher war es so, dass die lubuntu-Mailingliste sehr offen genutzt wurde. > Ich wuerde daher die Aussage - "Please do not try to contact us - or our > Mailing Lists - in the future. Those messages will be deleted without any > reaction." - anders formulieren. Bei der Vielzahl der Subskribenten auf der > Liste gehe ich zudem nicht davon aus, dass alle immer der gleichen Meinung > sind (Wie du bei jeglichen Diskussionen auf der Liste siehst - ist das in > der Tat die Ausnahme). Ich bin daher immer vorsichtig, im Namen der > Community zu sprechen (auch aus Erfahrung aus anderen Communities). > Danke nochmals fuer das Follow-up. > Viele Gruesse ins winterliche Deutschland, > Mario > This translates into the below on my translation system.... > Hi, > thanks for the info. How I infer from the mail of Jared, the Spam > accusation exists for the Ubuntu user's list. I think that difficulties > should be solved where they appear. The lubuntu mailing list did not become > gespamt, as far as I can see this. > A short statement that you presently no resources has to cooperate and > that the Comms team wants to concentrate at the moment rather upon direct > Ubuntu projects like UWN etc. would have been better, I think. In addition > the statement that there has been Spam suspicion on the Ubuntu user's list > (On the left from Jared you could have cosent.). Therefore, you would like > to wait first of all. Whether it applies or not - the different views can > be cleared there (on the Ubuntu user's list). > Up to now it was in such a way that the lubuntu mailing list was used very > openly. Hence, I would differently formulate the statement - ' Please do > not try to contact us - or our Mailing Lists - in the future . Those > messages will be deleted without any reaction . '. Besides, with the huge > number of the subscribers on the list I do not assume from the fact that > everything are always of the same opinion (As you see with any discussions > on the list - is, indeed, the exception). Hence, I am always careful to > speak in the name of the Community (also from experience from other > Communities). > Thanks again for the Follow-up. > Many greetings in wintry Germany, > Mario Given the above, it would be helpful if we can form a consensus to put to the main listing and use this ML for the discussions so everyone is kept in the loop. Regards, Phill. -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
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