On 6 February 2012 01:41, Phill Whiteside <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm not sure about anyone else, But I'm struggling to keep up with the > emails and PM's going from person to person. I've gotten as many parts as I > can glean into one email so that we have the information that is to hand. > >> Hi Jens >> No. I did not get any email before this one. >> This is shocking. Yes, I just learned from someone that Ubuntu teams are >> having some issues with Muktware. I do want to understand what the >> issues are and want to address them immediately. >> I have been covering Linux since 2005 and our goal at Muktware is to >> promote Linux and open source, especially Ubuntu. We have published 100s >> of stories to promote Ubuntu and help out users in using Ubuntu. We >> published two full manuals helping users in installing Ubuntu. >> So, it sad to see that Ubuntu community has taken such a decision. I >> would very much want to open a channel of discussion and understand the >> issues. We don't want to harm or hurt the hard work done by the Ubuntu >> teams. Our intentions are always to assist Linux/Ubuntu users. So, I >> will really appreciate if you can help use find a solution to this >> problem. >> If you have problems with some stories, we will remove them. But, please >> do tell us what are the issues so that we can fix them. >> As far as mailing list is concerned, I don't understand the accusation >> of spamming. >> Looking forward to your positive reply. >> Best >> Swapnil Bhartiya >> >> >> Jens, >> I just thought I'd compile a little list of improvements I'd like to see >> in Muktware's current procedures to try and explain my concerns. I don't >> think these items would prevent any team from interacting with Muktware but >> I would definitely encourage people to be cautious in providing any >> favourable treatment to them over any other group. If they were somehow able >> to reverse their current trends it might be something to consider in the >> future. >> My first interaction with Muktware was on the Lubuntu mailing list so I'll >> start there. The first post I saw from Swapnil on Muktware's behalf was the >> announcement that they wanted to work on a Ubuntu Manual [1]. I personally >> was at the time quite involved in the Lubuntu documentation effort so I >> responded to raise my concerns of the lack of collaboration shown [2]. My >> main cause for concern was that it seemed to work against the Ubuntu Code of >> Conduct [3] on the sub point of "Be Collaborative". My issues fell on deaf >> ears as you can see by Swapnil's response [4] they didn't even respond to my >> concerns but rather went off on another tangent. >> My second main point of contention is the use of Ubuntu teams to spam >> their own website. While there have been half hearted attempts at linking >> them to support [5] instead of providing the full and helpful explanation in >> a simple email they linked to their own revenue raising website which to me >> is a very dubious practice. I could trawl through more mailing list logs to >> give more examples but I'm sorry I'm a little short of time currently. Then >> there is the obvious spamming and trolling of the largest Ubuntu mailing >> list [6] in which they not only spam their revenue raising website but they >> also post derogatory opinions about Ubuntu without providing any evidence to >> support their claims. Granted they did attempt to apologise of sorts [7] but >> really, accidentally spamming 5000 users doesn't come across very sincere. >> In summary, while I respect Muktware's right to publish whatever they >> would like to on their website I detest the methods used to both attempt >> divert Ubuntu contributors to their pet projects that they generate revenue >> off and the methods they use to push their content in front of other Ubuntu >> users against mailing list guidelines. Should this practice cease I might be >> swayed to recommend them to others but currently my only recommendation is >> to tread carefully. Please let me know if you would like any further details >> or comment. >> [1] https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg04565.html >> [2] https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg04502.html >> [3] http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct >> [4] https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg04506.html >> [5] >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2012-January/256813.html >> [6] >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2012-January/256856.html >> [7] >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2012-January/256862.html >> >> >> >> >> Hi, >> danke fuer die Info. Wie ich der Mail von Jared entnehme, besteht die >> Spam-Anschuldigung fuer die Ubuntu-Users-Liste. Ich denke, dass >> Schwierigkeiten dort geloest werden sollten, wo sie auftreten. Die >> lubuntu-Mailingliste wurde nicht gespamt, soweit ich das sehen kann. >> Eine kurze Aussage, dass du gegenwaertig keine Resourcen hast zu >> kooperieren und dass das Comms-Team sich momentan eher auf direkte >> Ubuntu-Projekte wie UWN etc. konzentrieren will, waere, denke ich, besser >> gewesen. Dazu die Aussage, dass es Spam-Verdacht auf der Ubuntu-Users-Liste >> gegeben hat (Links von Jared haettest du mitsenden koennen.). Deshalb >> moechtest du erst einmal abwarten. Ob es zutrifft oder nicht - die >> verschiedenen Ansichten koennen ja dort (auf der Ubuntu-Users-Liste) >> geklaert werden. >> Bisher war es so, dass die lubuntu-Mailingliste sehr offen genutzt wurde. >> Ich wuerde daher die Aussage - "Please do not try to contact us - or our >> Mailing Lists - in the future. Those messages will be deleted without any >> reaction." - anders formulieren. Bei der Vielzahl der Subskribenten auf der >> Liste gehe ich zudem nicht davon aus, dass alle immer der gleichen Meinung >> sind (Wie du bei jeglichen Diskussionen auf der Liste siehst - ist das in >> der Tat die Ausnahme). Ich bin daher immer vorsichtig, im Namen der >> Community zu sprechen (auch aus Erfahrung aus anderen Communities). >> Danke nochmals fuer das Follow-up. >> Viele Gruesse ins winterliche Deutschland, >> Mario >> This translates into the below on my translation system.... >> Hi, >> thanks for the info. How I infer from the mail of Jared, the Spam >> accusation exists for the Ubuntu user's list. I think that difficulties >> should be solved where they appear. The lubuntu mailing list did not become >> gespamt, as far as I can see this. >> A short statement that you presently no resources has to cooperate and >> that the Comms team wants to concentrate at the moment rather upon direct >> Ubuntu projects like UWN etc. would have been better, I think. In addition >> the statement that there has been Spam suspicion on the Ubuntu user's list >> (On the left from Jared you could have cosent.). Therefore, you would like >> to wait first of all. Whether it applies or not - the different views can be >> cleared there (on the Ubuntu user's list). >> Up to now it was in such a way that the lubuntu mailing list was used very >> openly. Hence, I would differently formulate the statement - ' Please do not >> try to contact us - or our Mailing Lists - in the future . Those messages >> will be deleted without any reaction . '. Besides, with the huge number of >> the subscribers on the list I do not assume from the fact that everything >> are always of the same opinion (As you see with any discussions on the list >> - is, indeed, the exception). Hence, I am always careful to speak in the >> name of the Community (also from experience from other Communities). >> Thanks again for the Follow-up. >> Many greetings in wintry Germany, >> Mario > > > > Given the above, it would be helpful if we can form a consensus to put to > the main listing and use this ML for the discussions so everyone is kept in > the loop. > > Regards, > > Phill. > > -- > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
Well I'm sure everyone is aware of my position on the issue, if not, read above. I'm not saying we should disadvantage them over any other media outlet but I'm definitely suggesting think twice before being linked or associated with them in particular. -- Regards, Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-comms Post to : [email protected] Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-comms More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
