Hi David,
I have a number of images of this type of roller-headed instrument -
some of them looking like ordinary sized lutes with extended basses -
so not necessarily all theorboes.
D--n you Van Edwards! You've planted the seed - I must resist, I must
resist . . . *:| straight face
Bill
__________________________________________________________________
From: David Van Edwards <da...@vanedwards.co.uk>
To: William Samson <willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "luthiste@gmail com" <luthi...@gmail.com>; "lute-builder@cs
dartmouth. edu" <lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Thursday, 12 March 2015, 11:52
Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Tied frets
Dear Bill and Benjamin,
I forgot to add that the purpose of the roller head on the theorbo
appears to be simply to put the upper pegs within reach of the player
without the need to stand up, rather than to shorten the diapasons.
Though it does also reduce the overall length, because effectively
the
upper pegbox is below the nut, thus saving 4 or 5 inches of length.
Incidentally these instruments appear moderately frequently in the
iconography even though they have been totally ignored, as far as I
know, by makers and players. Andreas Schlegel gave a paper about
ignored lute types in Utrecht a couple of years ago and proposed that
this type be called the Netherlandish theorbo as all the iconography
is
linked to the Netherlands.
So far I've found 10 images of roller-headed theorbos, from 7
different
artists.
As to the Buechenberg, I haven't examined it but Joel Dugot notes in
his catalogue entry that the bridge and soundboard are of recent and
mediocre work and that only the marquetry is of high quality. However
the marquetry on the fingerboard has been done without leaving a
space
for the lower nut, so he concludes that the whole "reconstruction"
project was done solely for appearance.
Maybe Bill you'll be the first to make a roller-headed theorbo, it
seems like a very viable type...................
Best wishes,
David
At 21:35 +0000 11/3/15, William Samson wrote:
Dear David and Benjamin,
I knew if I wittered randomly about theorboes it would attract the
attention of people who actually know something about them. :)
Have you had the opportunity to look closely at the Paris
Buechenberg? The bridge seems to be a long way from the bottom of
the instrument and was wondering if this looks like an original
feature. I agree that the proportions of the Harz look a bit odd.
I am a fan of unusual lutes and wish more makers were building them
(though the demand has to be there in the first place). I like,
when possible, to refer to contemporary iconography to help justify
decisions. The trouble with surviving instruments is that
alterations might have been made in relatively recent times, either
for 'commercial' reasons (like Franciolini) or converting them to
uses for which the instruments weren't intended (like the
short-necked Hartung in Washington DC.).
All the best,
Bill
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
_______________________________________________________________
From:"David Van Edwards" <[1]da...@vanedwards.co.uk>
Date:Wed, 11 Mar, 2015 at 20:48
Subject:[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Tied frets
Dear Bill and Benjamin,
The Wikipedia link to that nice roller-headed theorbo implies that
it
is by Jan van den Hoecke but I understand from the museum website
that he only painted the little figure of Cupid while the
instruments
and still-life stuff was painted by Paul de Vos.
[2][2]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/viewArtefact?id 95
In answer to Benjamin's query, there are plenty of theorbos with
short necks but they all appear to have been cut down. Even the 8
fret Harz archlute probably started life with a longer neck. Since
there ARE such cut down theorbos, evidently the player who asked
for
it thought it a worthwhile idea so it's up to you to decide what
you
you want and order accordingly.
For instance the nice Matteo Sellas in Rome [P.V.8182] looks to
have
been converted to a French theorbo style with a very short neck
having about 5.5 frets! And the famous Buechenberg in Paris with
the
additional little bass side rose has 7.8 fret spaces on a a string
length of 715mm. Pp. 24-5 in the catalogue of the museum.
Best wishes,
David
At 11:15 +0000 11/3/15, William Samson wrote:
> Could be why theorboes were sometimes built this way - saving
the
> length of the upper pegbox:
>
[1][3]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Ho
eck
> e_017.jpg
> Bill
>
>
> [2]image
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [3]View on upload.wikimedia.org
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Benjamin Narvey <[3][4]luthi...@gmail.com>
> To: "[4][5]lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu"
<[5][6]lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 March 2015, 8:46
> Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Tied frets
> Hmmmm. Still no thoughts?
> Sent from my iPad
> On 07 Mar 2015, at 22:49, BENJAMIN NARVEY
<[1][4][6][7]luthi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Dear collected wisdom,
> I'm rather wondering what the minimum number of frets is for
> historical lute instruments, notably for theorbo(s). I am
considering
> having an instrument shortened for travel purposes, and this
may
> involve reducing the stopped string length; I know of many
large
> theorboes with only 8 tied frets, but are there any with
only
7?
> With best wishes,
> Benjamin
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>References
>
> Visible links
> 1.
>[11]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoe
c
ke_017.jpg
> 2.
>[12]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoe
c
ke_017.jpg
> 3.
>[13]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoe
c
ke_017.jpg
> 4. mailto:[10][14]luthi...@gmail.com
> 5. mailto:[11][15]luthi...@gmail.com
> 6. [12][16]http://www.luthiste.com/
> 7.
[13][17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> Hidden links:
> 9.
>[18]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoe
c
ke_017.jpg
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14. [27]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
References
1. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk
2. http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/viewArtefact?id
3. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Ho
4. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
5. mailto:lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
8. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
9. http://www.luthiste.com/
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoec
12. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoec
13. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoec
14. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
15. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
16. http://www.luthiste.com/
17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
18. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoec
19. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
20. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
21. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android
22. http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/viewArtefact?id%2095
23. http://www.luthiste.com/
24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
25. http://www.luthiste.com/
26. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
27. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
