Dear Taylor,
No doubt Bill will reply to make clear who he is!!
Andreas' paper has not been published yet I
think, but it would be worth emailing him direct
at lute.cor...@sunrise.ch to ask him about it.
Here is a list of the paintings I know of, most
can be googled online with these details:
Pieter Jacobsz Codde, Musée des beaux-arts, Strasbourg
Theodor Rombouts (1597-1637) (after) Musée des Beaux-Arts, Valenciennes, France
Theodor Rombouts (1597-1637), Card Players, National Museum, Warsaw, Poland
Theodor Rombouts (1597-1637), Musical Company
(I'd be grateful if you find where this is)
Anon, Franco-Flemish, Still Life, Sold Christies 2007, Sale 7442 Lot 202,
Peter Paul Rubens (1577-1640), The Education of
Marie de Medicis, Musée du Louvre, Paris, France
Wallerant Vaillant after David Teniers the
Younger, The Luteplayer and the Drinker, National
Gallery of Art, Washington, DC. USA
David Teniers the Younger (1610-1690), The
Luteplayer and the Drinker , Sold Christie's (New
York City) 1998-01-29, Lot 45
Paul de Vos (1591/2, or 1595 - 1678 ) & Jan van
den Hoeck (1611 - 1650) for the figure of Amor,
Amor Vincit Omnia, Kunsthistorisches Museum,
Vienna, Austria, Inv.-Nr. GG_3554
Pieter Fontijn (1773 - 1839), A Couple In An Inn
Making Music, A Woman Listening In The Doorway.
Again I don't know where this is, let me know if
you find out.
Best wishes,
David
At 07:25 -0400 15/3/15, Taylor DiClemente wrote:
Hello Mr. Samson, Mr. Van Edwards,
I'm sorry to interject. I am a new player who has yet to commission a
theorbo. I'm intrigued by the roller-head solution and would be very
interested in seeing a list of the paintings in which they appear, and
finding out the name of Andreas Schlegel's paper on the subject. And
who is the Bill who may be interested in reviving the roller-head?
Thank you kindly in advance,
Taylor DiClemente
On 3/12/15, William Samson <willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi David,
I have a number of images of this type of roller-headed instrument -
some of them looking like ordinary sized lutes with extended basses -
so not necessarily all theorboes.
D--n you Van Edwards! You've planted the seed - I must resist, I must
resist . . . *:| straight face
Bill
__________________________________________________________________
From: David Van Edwards <da...@vanedwards.co.uk>
To: William Samson <willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "luthiste@gmail com" <luthi...@gmail.com>; "lute-builder@cs
dartmouth. edu" <lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Thursday, 12 March 2015, 11:52
Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Tied frets
Dear Bill and Benjamin,
I forgot to add that the purpose of the roller head on the theorbo
appears to be simply to put the upper pegs within reach of the player
without the need to stand up, rather than to shorten the diapasons.
Though it does also reduce the overall length, because effectively
> the
> upper pegbox is below the nut, thus saving 4 or 5 inches of length.
> Incidentally these instruments appear moderately frequently in the
iconography even though they have been totally ignored, as far as I
know, by makers and players. Andreas Schlegel gave a paper about
ignored lute types in Utrecht a couple of years ago and proposed that
this type be called the Netherlandish theorbo as all the iconography
is
linked to the Netherlands.
So far I've found 10 images of roller-headed theorbos, from 7
different
artists.
As to the Buechenberg, I haven't examined it but Joel Dugot notes in
his catalogue entry that the bridge and soundboard are of recent and
mediocre work and that only the marquetry is of high quality. However
> the marquetry on the fingerboard has been done without leaving a
space
for the lower nut, so he concludes that the whole "reconstruction"
project was done solely for appearance.
Maybe Bill you'll be the first to make a roller-headed theorbo, it
> seems like a very viable type...................
Best wishes,
David
At 21:35 +0000 11/3/15, William Samson wrote:
Dear David and Benjamin,
I knew if I wittered randomly about theorboes it would attract the
attention of people who actually know something about them. :)
Have you had the opportunity to look closely at the Paris
Buechenberg? The bridge seems to be a long way from the bottom of
the instrument and was wondering if this looks like an original
feature. I agree that the proportions of the Harz look a bit odd.
I am a fan of unusual lutes and wish more makers were building them
(though the demand has to be there in the first place). I like,
when possible, to refer to contemporary iconography to help justify
decisions. The trouble with surviving instruments is that
alterations might have been made in relatively recent times, either
for 'commercial' reasons (like Franciolini) or converting them to
uses for which the instruments weren't intended (like the
short-necked Hartung in Washington DC.).
All the best,
Bill
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
_______________________________________________________________
From:"David Van Edwards" <[1]da...@vanedwards.co.uk>
Date:Wed, 11 Mar, 2015 at 20:48
Subject:[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Tied frets
Dear Bill and Benjamin,
The Wikipedia link to that nice roller-headed theorbo implies that
it
is by Jan van den Hoecke but I understand from the museum website
that he only painted the little figure of Cupid while the
instruments
and still-life stuff was painted by Paul de Vos.
[2][2]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/viewArtefact?id 95
In answer to Benjamin's query, there are plenty of theorbos with
short necks but they all appear to have been cut down. Even the 8
fret Harz archlute probably started life with a longer neck. Since
there ARE such cut down theorbos, evidently the player who asked
for
it thought it a worthwhile idea so it's up to you to decide what
you
you want and order accordingly.
For instance the nice Matteo Sellas in Rome [P.V.8182] looks to
have
been converted to a French theorbo style with a very short neck
having about 5.5 frets! And the famous Buechenberg in Paris with
the
additional little bass side rose has 7.8 fret spaces on a a string
length of 715mm. Pp. 24-5 in the catalogue of the museum.
Best wishes,
David
At 11:15 +0000 11/3/15, William Samson wrote:
> Could be why theorboes were sometimes built this way - saving
the
> length of the upper pegbox:
>
[1][3]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Ho
eck
> e_017.jpg
> Bill
>
>
> [2]image
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [3]View on upload.wikimedia.org
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Benjamin Narvey <[3][4]luthi...@gmail.com>
> To: "[4][5]lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu"
<[5][6]lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 March 2015, 8:46
> Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Tied frets
> Hmmmm. Still no thoughts?
> Sent from my iPad
> On 07 Mar 2015, at 22:49, BENJAMIN NARVEY
<[1][4][6][7]luthi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> Dear collected wisdom,
> I'm rather wondering what the minimum number of frets is for
> historical lute instruments, notably for theorbo(s). I am
considering
> having an instrument shortened for travel purposes, and this
> may
> involve reducing the stopped string length; I know of many
large
> theorboes with only 8 tied frets, but are there any with
only
7?
> With best wishes,
> Benjamin
> --
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>References
>
> Visible links
> 1.
>[11]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoe
c
ke_017.jpg
> 2.
>[12]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoe
c
ke_017.jpg
> 3.
>[13]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoe
c
ke_017.jpg
> 4. mailto:[10][14]luthi...@gmail.com
> 5. mailto:[11][15]luthi...@gmail.com
> 6. [12][16]http://www.luthiste.com/
> 7.
[13][17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> Hidden links:
> 9.
>[18]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoe
c
ke_017.jpg
--
The Smokehouse,
6 Whitwell Road,
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England.
Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
Website: [14][19]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
--
The Smokehouse,
6 Whitwell Road,
Norwich, NR1 4HB
England.
Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
Website: [20]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
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2. [22]http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/viewArtefact?id%2095
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8. [23]http://www.luthiste.com/
9. [24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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12. [25]http://www.luthiste.com/
13. [26]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. [27]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
References
1. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk
2. http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/viewArtefact?id
3. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Ho
4. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
5. mailto:lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
8. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
9. http://www.luthiste.com/
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoec
12. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoec
13. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoec
14. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
15. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com
16. http://www.luthiste.com/
17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
18. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Jan_van_den_Hoec
19. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
20. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
21. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android
22. http://bilddatenbank.khm.at/viewArtefact?id%2095
23. http://www.luthiste.com/
24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
25. http://www.luthiste.com/
26. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 27. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
Taylor DiClemente
c: 240.675.2146
--
The Smokehouse,
6 Whitwell Road,
Norwich, NR1 4HB
England.
Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
