Wow, what a discussion. Let us first define the "Church". And we'll only look at the Christian church as we are speaking of Europe. The "Church" in medieval times (and the Dark Ages, if you want to seperate them, I don't) was the Roman Church. But this was a relatively late development in that first millenium A.D. I'll not put dates into this, partly because my aging memory is losing them and I don't feel like looking in my bookshelves - but mainly as everything develops over a period of time and specific dates are irrelevant when looking at the "known world".
We can start at the back end of the messages, just for fun. Henry VIII wasn't a protestant, although his church is called protestant. Martin Luther was a protester, as were others. Henry just got pissed at Rome, but his doctrine retained the Trinity and much of the rest of the Church doctrine. Martin Luther and John Wesley took a new, and old, view. In the first century A.D. there was a conflict among the Christians - the Pauls and the Peters (and the James's) - as to whether to worship Jesus as Messiah of the Jews or Lord of all man (yes, overly simplified). Paul wanted to go to the Gentiles as well as the Jews, Peter took a middle ground, and James wanted the worship to remain within the confines of Jewish law. Not overly relevant today, but it meant a lot to them. When St. Patrick brought Christianity to Ireland is wasn't the Church of Rome, which really didn't exist as such at the time, it was the more general teachings of Jesus. Constantine's conversion was a defining moment for the church in that it made the remains of the Empire Christian, but not a controlling matter for the believers. I would hesitate to say when the Pope of Rome became arbiter of the Church, but I'd guess that Pope Gregory would be a good guess. Many of the Frankish tribes had converted by then, but like the other Christians of the north they were yet secular for their worldly matters. Probably the coronation of Otto may have been the change. The Merovingian dynasty of converted Franks became the Carolingians of the Holy Roman Empire. What had been lost at arms was regained in the sacristy. But yet there were the other Christian sects, and this went on for hundreds of years. The Albigensians were probably decendents of the Visigoths who had become Roman in loyalty, but had their own Christian church. And if you read Umberto Eco's Name of the Rose (a pleasant conciept) you see the Irish church at the time of the papacy of Avignon as a haven for the books being burned by the heirarchy of that same church of patronage and indulgences that Martin Luther resisted, and against which he posted his proclamations. Wow, I'm really in trouble. I've offended everyone and I haven't even made a coherent thesis. But there is a way to get back to music yet. The Church, and the protestant churches, all had an influence on the music of their times. The English, French, German and Scottish Psalters were a revival of plainsong, but also a form of harmony. The rule was that every word sung in church must come directly from the Scriptures. A musical rebellion against the formal and embellished worship of the Roman Church (and I don't say Catholic, as the Anglican and several Eastern Orthodox chuches consider themselves to be catholic also). Its a long thread, and I haven't read it all - but I've tried to read a good sampling. The Renaissance is defined as the era of "re-learning", not of "learning". A rebirth of the ancient arts (and the implication is that they were suppressed by the Church). The printing press (as someone said) brought the vernacular bible to the people - although the writer who mentioned the death penalty for possession was too limited, the same applied in England. Enough, it is an age I study, and nothing I can say in this long letter (but brief history) can satisfy all. Suffice to say that I am either atheist or agnostic, depending on the definition, but both enjoy and understand the history of the church and the Church in defining Western culture, and in that way defining Western music. But I'd love to fine some early ballads of the "melody lute" and some words from the balladeers. Best, Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A Stimson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: Re: Church authority in the Renaissance. > > > > > Dear All: > Those who doubt the threat to the church posed by the printing press > should bear in mind that during the Albigensian crusades possession of a > vernacular translation of the Bible was punishable by death. > Yours, > Jim > > > >
