Tim, By now you know that I'm an inveterate tinkerer, and have made some on the list think I'm a bit off base. But I agree with the comments on friction and Delrin. Guitar tuning machines would be a good solution for the lute, and shouldn't affect the sound. But I don't think I'll use them. I may not be HIP, but I think I'd like to make good pegs that work. And the peg box will be affected by the weather anyway, even if the Delrin isn't.
Smooth tuning is a combination of the pegs and the nut (the wound courses may catch a bit). But as the only one here who is playing that "lute" from Musikits (the flatback so denigrated, even though the cittern is flatbacked) I'll add a point. My friend Jerry who designed it didn't know much about pegged strings under tension. The flat back is almost impossible to tune as it has a "peg board" instead of a "peg box". I've learned that in making pegs, and tuning that beast (but it is yet probably the best way for a beginner to decide if they want a real lute). With a single friction hole in the peg board (@ 3/4" thick) the "grab" versus the easy tuning is a matter of pulling the peg out a bit, tuning, then shoving it in - then trying to see if you got it right, and likely doing it again. The peg box of the traditional lute gives friction on both ends of the peg (and preferably a bit more at the wide end to avoid peg breakage). I suggest that there is no material that will give the "right amount of grab" unless the peg box is made of the same material. The Delrin peg won't swell with humidity, but the wooden peg box will. I am too new to this to make a definitive opinon, but my initial reaction would be toward a similar wood, and a careful tapering, for peg and peg box. And with that 3/4" pegboard, and commercial ebony violin pegs, I know from "grab" and "slip". Friction is necessary, and smooth friction is desirable. I hope my pegs will be that. But I wouldn't use to totally different materials to gain that. Delrin is great for saddles and nuts, but I'd question it for pegs. After all, the lute would sound no different if you put guitar mechanisms on it. That which is behind the nut stays there. And what is wrong with a bit of a guess on tuning, it is our ears rather than the exact frequencies recorded by the electronic tuner that hear the sound. I use my tuner for my harp as I need to tune 52 strings, but I use the tuning fork and my ears for the lute. Nothing is perfect, particularly music. Best, Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "timothy motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "David Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Pegs, revisited > >David, > What I'm curious about is the smoothness of the tuning action. Even > with a peg turned, shaved, and polished at the right taper and the > peg-holes reamed properly, there is still an issue sometimes with > pegs that don't turn smoothly. That can make tuning more of a guess > than a precise action, especially if the weather isn't cooperating. > If you compare a wooden peg to a good guitar tuning machine, it is > both the mechanical advantage of the gears and the greater precision > of the action that make the guitar easier to tune (relatively > speaking). > > Musicians playing instruments with wooden pegs use a variety of > materials like wax and peg dope to get just the right degree of > friction while maintaining smoothness. I'm just curious whether > there is a material that would always give the right amount of grab > but still allow for a smooth tuning action, no matter what the > weather. A very fine instrument built by a real craftsman probably > has fewer problems with tuning than the ones I've built for myself. > I'm not likely to be able to afford a fine instrument, though, and I > still would like one with smooth tuning action. But maybe it's like > that joke about how to get to Carnegie Hall -- practice. > > I understand what you're saying, though. Even short of splitting the > cheeks of the pegbox, you can get a jammed peg. > > As I said, I just like to tinker with things. > > Tim > > > > > > >---- Original Message ---- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Cameron) > >To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > >Subject: Re: Pegs, revisited > >Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:58:48 -0500 > > > >>Timothy Motz wrote: > >> > >>"Craig, > >>You and Steve are probably right about both the friction and > >>flexibility. My next thought would be to insert Delrin bushings in > >>the peg head. I'll probably never do it, but I can't resist > >>tinkering with things...." > >> > >> > >>I don't understand why the lower friction of the Delrin would be a > >benefit. > >>If you lower the friction, you just have to push the pegs in harder > >to get > >>them to hold the string tension. Too little friction leads to too > >much push, > >>and the cheeks of the pegbox split. > >> > >>David Cameron > >> > >> > >> > >>To get on or off this list see list information at > >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > > > > > > >
