Sean,
Thanks for the encouragement, I was hopping someone with experience with
Italian Tab. would find it attainable with a little effort, and spur me on.
I much prefer to read from facsimiles.
I bit the bullet a few months ago, and got the facsimiles of both
the London, and Dresden MS. edited by DAS.
BTW, OMI in NY has a compressive catalogue of Facsimiles, for guitar
and lute.
The Capriola in color is $33 , and the Dalsa, is $38.
http://www.omifacsimiles.com/mgencatalogs.html
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
>
> Dear Michael,
>
> Italian tab is indeed learnable. I put it off for 20 years and then
> lived it with it exclusively for a week and found it no biggy. I
> started with single line pieces such as Francesco's canon and then
> worked my way into dances w/ simple bass lines and then on to the
> ricercares. Eventually I saw all the same patterns I remembered from
> French tab and it just fell into place.
>
> The Capirola book is one of the finest sources of late 15th cent lute
> music. Some of Josquin's, Agricola's and Brumel's fine motets are there
> and intabulated very well. Some of the biggest hits of the 15th century
> are also found there: Ales Regrets and Nunquam fuit as well as a few
> popular current songs and the dances you mentioned. It's a wonderfully
> alive period of music and Capirola reflects this nicely.
>
> There are so few mistakes and it is written so clearly that a modern
> edition is superfluous --and you probably won't get all the cool and
> humorous pictures! I remember seeing Jacob Heringmann give his Josquin
> concert and he simply played from the facsimile. If you were interested
> in further notes about it then I would second Denys' suggestion of the
> Otto Gombosi book which should be available in any decent college music
> library. Btw, Capirola's introduction is translated at Federico
> Marincola's Lutebot site:
> http://www.marincola.com/lutebot1.txt
>
> On the 4th course octave question. With a little practice and focus you
> can either accentuate or downplay the octave jangle as you see fit with
> either fingers or thumb. It's more a question of attack.
>
> Good luck,
> Sean
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2005, at 8:58 PM, Michael Thames wrote:
>
> >> Dear Michael,
> >> I understand why you are confused now!
> >> You are not looking at the original.
> >
> > Denys and Leonard,
> > Thanks for the info. I can see now why I was confused.
> >
> > I've always been afraid of Italian tab. However, considering that 90%
> > of
> > the ren. lute music I play is early Italian perhaps I should make a
> > effort
> > to read Italian Tab?
> >
> > Just in case..... Has anyone produced a good reliable edition of
> > Dalsa,
> > Spinacino, and Capriola in French Tab. for 6 course lute?
> >
> > I was at a Master class with Paul Odette, and had just began
> > playing a
> > 6 course lute with an octave on the 4th course. I mentioned how
> > strange it
> > sounded to me after playing an 8 course with the unison 4th course.
> > Paul then started to demonstrate many examples of the advantages
> > of an
> > octave on the 4th course. One of the examples was the Padoana by
> > Capriola,
> > which if I remember correctly he only played the octave at certain
> > times, of
> > the fourth course? Is this what is meant as splitting a course?
> > Denys, thanks for the Dalsa peices.... I love this stuff!
> >
> > Michael Thames
> > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> >
> >
> >> Dear Michael,
> >> I understand why you are confused now!
> >> You are not looking at the original.
> >>
> >> I have some of the Lyre Music publications myself
> >> and think that they are extremely valuable - the
> >> "Art of Lute in Renaissance Italy" make a lot of music
> >> available that would be very hard and expensive to collect
> >> in the original sources. In my copy of the "dances" volume
> >> some of the pieces have been rearranged for 7 course lute -
> >> this is quite handy for players who have a 7 or 8 course
> >> instrument as it avoids the need to retune. It's not entirely
> >> unauthentic as it is recorded that 7 course lutes were known
> >> in the early 16th century. But the original music was not notated
> >> that way - both in Dalza & Capirola the pieces with the 6th course
> >> detuned by a tone are written on a 6 line stave for 6 course lute.
> >> The same applies for the Dalza pieces that also have the 5th course
> >> lowered by a tone. All you have to do is retune the relevant basses
> >> and play as if the instrument was tuned "normally."
> >>
> >> Where these pieces have been re-written for a 7 course lute
> >> it is assumed that the 7th course is tuned a tone below the 6th.
> >> The notes on the de-tuned 6th course in the original are omitted
> >> and replaced by the open 7th.
> >>
> >> There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition
> >> I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla
> >> Venetiana)
> >> by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of
> > "splitting"
> >> (i.e. dividing)
> >> the third course into its two component strings and playing different
> >> notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes
> >> and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an
> >> attempt
> >> to bypass the
> >> problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical
> >> feature
> >> from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from
> >> the
> >> lute.
> >> To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the Capirola
> >> manuscript
> >> or the 1955 Otto Gombosi edition of it.
> >>
> >> If you really like Dalza there's no better way to get to know the
> >> music
> >> than to get a copy of the original, the "Intabulatura de lauto Libro
> > Quarto"
> >> published by Petrucci in Venice, 1508. There are quite a few
> >> typographical
> >> errors in the print to watch out for but lots of very enjoyable music.
> >> I think the facsimile published by Minkoff is currently in print.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Denys
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Denys Stephens"
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:24 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Dear Michael,
> >>>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth
> >>>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see
> >>>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions
> >>>> are included at the beginning of the piece.
> >>>
> >>>> Best wishes,
> >>>
> >>>> Denys
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Denys,
> >>> I only have a few Xeroxed copies of some Dalsa. Which book
> > would
> >>> you recommend?
> >>> I have three editions by Dick Hoban which are great, and was
> >>> considering ordering the Italian dance music, which I'm sure has
> >>> lots of
> >>> Dalsa.
> >>> However, I still don't understand the notation I guess.
> >>> The "a" below the 6th course would normally indicate an open 7th
> >> course
> >>> but this means to tune the 6th course down a step?. Why would there
> >>> be
> > 2
> >>> different open "a" one for the 6th and one to indicate the tuning?
> >>>
> >>> Michael Thames
> >>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> To: "lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:18 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Dear Michael,
> >>>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth
> >>>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see
> >>>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions
> >>>> are included at the beginning of the piece.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best wishes,
> >>>>
> >>>> Denys
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:55 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the
> >> Capirola
> >>>> lute
> >>>>>> book.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Kenneth Be
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Glad this question came up, as I'm confused about this. I can
> > see
> >> in
> >>>> for
> >>>>> instance in Padonana by Capriola is pretty straight forward, but
> > what
> >>>> about
> >>>>> a Pavana alla Ferrarese by Dalsa, that indicates tuning the 6th
> > course
> >>>> down
> >>>>> a step yet at the same time shows an open "a'' on the 6th courses
> >>>>> as
> >>> well?
> >>>>> Michael Thames
> >>>>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:36 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:10:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >>>>>> I don't know whether any 16th century lute music involves tuning
> > the
> >>> 6th
> >>>>>> course down a tone. Perhaps someone on the list can tell us.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the
> > Capirola
> >>>> lute
> >>>>>> book.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kenneth Be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
> >>>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
