Dear Leonard, Sean & all, Concerning detuning the 5th course on a 5 course lute - this made me think of Dalza's pieces which require lowering both the fifth and sixth courses by a tone (the Pavana alla Ferrarese group starting on f.27v). It has never occured to me to think of it this way before, but that tuning could easily have derived from 5 course lute technique carried forward onto the 6c instrument.
I think Sean's observation re: the Spinacino intabulations is extremely interesting. I have often wondered how long it took Spinacino to assemble the material for his two prints. He was clearly using a 6 course lute by the time the first was printed in 1507. If some were originally intabulated for a 5c lute it might suggest that it took a number of years to create that body of work. It's not proof, of course, but most of what we know about the Petrucci lutenists is from the books themselves, and every new insight helps to further our understanding of them. Best wishes, Denys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leonard Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute List" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:02 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tinctoris > Sean-- > > You wrote: > > I think some pieces in Spinacino are modified 5c reductions since they > > are high on the neck and only sneak in the 6th course rarely for a Bb > > on the 6th course (eg, Vostre a maistres, O venus bant, Amours amours > > and others). Never in those pieces is it an open 6th course which could > > have moved the tessitura of the song down a 4th making them SO much > > easier. These are very decorated versions of 3-voice chansons so > > perhaps w/ less decoration 4-voice songs were also possible. > > I'm not familiar with the pieces, but I'm wondering if lowering the > fifth course one tone for an open Bb makes things easier, as with some > 6-course pieces with G lowered to F? > > On 3/11/06 1:03 PM, "Sean Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Dear Arne, > > > > I was just looking at Tinctors' single line 'solos' over popular tenors > > taken from the Segovia. (from his collected works. No, I didn't get the > > editor information but will next time if you'd like it). To my eye it's > > obviously for lute --or bowed instrument if you're very handy. As Jon > > Banks points out in his article in Early Music (May 1999 --thanks > > Stewart!) these decorated lines are in the gathering that he thinks are > > for lute duos and they certainly feel like it. > > > > He must have been quite a player judging from their intricacy so I'll > > assume he knew what he was talking about. On the other hand, each of > > the decorations fit perfectly on a descant (plucked) instrument of 5 > > courses but these, as I said, are decorations over the tenor. > > > > If Paumann had been playing solos on his lute 30 years previous, and > > had this rumored 7th course, then there is plenty of time to develop > > techniques to play complete chansons on a single instrument and reach > > the level of sophistication that Spinacino prints. Judging from the > > various styles, I suspect he was drawing from a variety of lutenists. > > > > I think some pieces in Spinacino are modified 5c reductions since they > > are high on the neck and only sneak in the 6th course rarely for a Bb > > on the 6th course (eg, Vostre a maistres, O venus bant, Amours amours > > and others). Never in those pieces is it an open 6th course which could > > have moved the tessitura of the song down a 4th making them SO much > > easier. These are very decorated versions of 3-voice chansons so > > perhaps w/ less decoration 4-voice songs were also possible. > > > > I suspect that what we don't know about this era and the lute would > > fill a very educational book. > > > > all the best, > > Sean Smith > > > > ps, sorry if this is a duplicate; I didn't see it show up on the list > > yet. > > > > On Mar 11, 2006, at 7:27 AM, Arne Keller wrote: > > > >> > >> Dear All, > >> > >> in the first part of David van Edward's fascinating lute history it is > >> mentioned that: > >> > >> "Later, c.1481-3, Tinctoris mentions a sixth course and there are even > >> tablatures from this period calling for a seven course lute, though no > >> pictures from so early show one." > >> > >> Which tablatures are these? Any pics/transcriptions/descriptions > >> online? > >> > >> "During the second half of the l5th century, there was a change to > >> playing > >> with the fingertips, though, as Page (1981) pointed out, the two > >> methods > >> continued for some time side by side. Tinctoris (c.1481-3) wrote of > >> holding > >> the lute 'while the strings are struck by the right hand either with > >> the > >> fingers or with a plectrum', but did not imply that the use of the > >> fingers > >> was a novelty. However, the change was very significant for the lute's > >> future development, for it allowed the playing of several parts at > >> once, > >> and meant that the huge repertoire of vocal part music both sacred and > >> secular became available to lute players. This function was made > >> easier by > >> the invention about this time of special systems of notation known as > >> tablature into which much of this repertoire was transcribed > >> [intabulated]. > >> There were three main kinds of tablature for the lute, developed in > >> Germany, France and Italy respectively. A fourth early system, > >> 'intavolatura alla Napolitana', was also used from time to time. Of the > >> four main types the French may have been the earliest." > >> > >> Why is that? > >> > >> "The German one was probably written during the lifetime of Conrad > >> Paumann > >> (d 1473), the supposed inventor of the system. Although Tinctoris had > >> mentioned a six-course lute, these first tablatures, and indeed the > >> very > >> names by which the strings of the instrument were known, suggest five > >> courses as still the most usual number at this time." > >> > >> Tinctoris also says (I believe it must be in the same treatise) that > >> four-part playing was taking place. > >> I don't suppose four parts are possible without the 6th course? > >> > >> > >> Any ideas? > >> > >> > >> Best greetings, > >> > >> Arne Keller. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006
