The next Journal from the LSA will have an article about a number of swan necks and details about the probable changes in them over the years. This should be finished shortly. Nancy Carlin
>There is also a recently surfaced Railich in Prague, that is likely to be an >altered angelique. >I was told by an extremely edudite individual a couple of weeks ago that >several swan-neck pegboxes show evidence of alterations consistent with >their origins as angeliques. >RT > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Andreas Schlegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: " Mathias R=F6sel " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:46 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Angelique (olim Another Theorbo Question) > > > > Hello > > > > We must be very careful! There exist an Angelique in Paris (E. > > 980.2.317, see the new catalogue p. 94) with a neck (not a swan neck, > > but also not a true theorbo neck - it's something between) who is > > known from French iconographic sources from 1660-80. > > I know a Tielke lute from 1680 in Zurich (the label is disapeared...) > > who was probably changed from 11-course to an Angelique with a swan > > neck and then changed to a "normal" 13-course lute. > > So we always have to distinct between the different layers of the > > "development" of an old lute! > > I don't think that all swan necked lutes are originally swan necked. > > Most of them are changed - it's only the question when, where and > > whatfor. > > > > Andreas > > > > Am 08.10.2006 um 19:17 schrieb Mathias R=F6sel: > > > >>>> Swan-necks on angeliques predate the > >>>> purported/alleged "invention" by some > >>>> 50 years. > >> > >>>> The oldest two out of those four angeliques in Schwerin date from > >>>> 1704 > >>>> (both made by Tielke). One angelique in Munich is a former lute, > >>>> dated > >>>> from 1633. (According to Pohlmann 1982, p. 596-7) > >> > >>> Kremberg's book is from 1689, as I recall... > >> > >> Yes, indeed. Do you happen to know of surviving angeliques from > >> Kremberg's days which would prove that they were built as swan necks > >> then, already? > >> -- > >> Best, > >> > >> Mathias > >> > >>>>> The angelique is essentially a converted _theorbo_, > >>>>> not a lute. > >>>> > >>>> Facing vibrating string lengths of 53 cm (Leipzig), 54 cm > >>>> (Brussels), 64 > >>>> cm (Munich), and ca 70 cm (four instruments in Schwerin, one in > >>>> Prague), > >>>> that seems improbable. If at all, angeliques were converted > >>>> lutes, not > >>>> theorbos. > >>>> > >>>> Only one out of survivng eight angeliques appears to be a converted > >>>> lute, however. Seven others were built as angeliques. That might > >>>> suggest > >>>> that the angelique was an instrument of its own right, not a > >>>> result of > >>>> conversions. > >>>> > >>>>> In this case, the theorboed extension was > >>>>> already there and the "swan-necking" was merely a > >>>>> characteristically French architechtural flourish of > >>>>> an existing product. > >>>> > >>>> I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that swan necks are > >>>> characterically German. > >> -- > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - www.nancycarlinassociates.com Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org --
