As I understand it, they thought in terms of the bass line, but chords are typically implied by that line, much like they are with continuo bass. Hopefully, someone with a much better understanding of music theory of that period can explain it in more detail.
-----Original Message----- From: Anthony Hind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 1:28 PM To: Guy Smith; Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Chord Confusion Yes, I do realise that some types are directly are written very much like vocal polyphony, and that these can only by fleeting chance develop into chordal patterns. For the music types you mention, these obviously can be described in terms of chordal shapes, but does it necessarily follow that the composer thought in terms of chordal forms and progressions. Anthony Le 15 juin 07 à 20:49, Guy Smith a écrit : > You are basically correct for things like intabulations of vocal > polyphony > or a lot of the ricercar literature, which is written much like vocal > polyphony. However, there are a lot of pieces based on standard > ground bass > patterns (bergamasca, passo mezzo, romanesca, la Folia, Conde > Claros...) > which do basically correspond to chord/rhythm patterns. > > Guy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Hind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 11:25 AM > To: Stewart McCoy; Lute Net > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Chord Confusion > > Thank you Stewart > I must admit I hadn't read Besard, but the texts I had read did not > > include chord patterns, and when I looked at Renaissance manuals such > as Damiani's that seemd quite detailed, but did not talk about > chords, I thought perhaps that the polyphonic origin of much > Renaissance lute music, might mean that what we recognize as chords > (sort of static horizontal relations) might have been felt > differently as passing dynamic almost fleeting relations. I see I am > probably wrong in that, unless it can be considered that Besard is in > some way premonitory (can we say that in English) looking forward to > a different melodic system. I notice, in a search on the web, that > Besard also favoured thumb out, which was to become the dominant > pattern in later Baroque lute music, so could he be considered, as > pointing in a new direction. > I am probably wrong again, I do tend to jump to conclusions as has > been pointed out to me previously on our pages. > Regards > Anthony > > Le 15 juin 07 à 17:39, Stewart McCoy a écrit : > >> Dear Neil and Anthony, >> >> Some sources of lute music give chords. For example, there are lots >> of chords in Besard's Instructions, which form the introduction to >> Robert Dowland's _Varietie of Lute-Lessons_ (London, 1610). Here >> the chords are given to show left-hand fingering. >> >> Thomas Mace gives lots of chords shapes in _Musick's Monument_ >> (London, 1676), but he does so to show that one tuning is better >> than another. >> >> There are chords on folio 1r of the so-called ML Lute Book, i.e. >> London, British Library, Additional Manuscript 38539, which seems >> to be a guide for how to realise a figured bass. >> >> It is fair to say that there is one important difference betwen the >> lute and the guitar: you are often required to strum chords on a >> guitar, but strumming is rare on the Lute. (Newsidler, Caroso?, and >> occasional French baroque composers are exceptions which spring to >> mind). Notation reflects performance practice, so the alfabeto >> system arose in Italy in the early part of the 17th century, >> because people were strumming their guitars. Lute music tended to >> be more polyphonic in character, so tablatures were used as the >> easiest way of showing players what to do. >> >> Although it can be helpful to think of chord shapes when playing >> the lute, it is of less use when intabulating or arranging music >> for the instrument. If you are unfamiliar with the notes on the >> fingerboard, it might help to give yourself a cog. Draw a five-line >> stave and a six-line stave, one above the other. On the five-line >> stave write down an ascending chromatic scale with all the notes >> from bottom G (or your lowest course) up to say top e" at the 9th >> fret of the first course. (That neatly covers all the notes >> commonly included in the hexachord system.) On the six-line stave >> copy out all the tablature letters which equate to those notes in >> staff notation. You can use this conversion chart to transfer notes >> from one notation to the other. After a while, you become so >> familiar with the notes on the fingerboard, that you hardly need >> look at your cog. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Stewart McCoy. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Hind" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Narada" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute Net" >> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 3:55 PM >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Chord Confusion >> >> >>> Neil >>> It is interesting that lute manuals do not usually give chord >>> shapes, whereas this is often >>> basic to guitar text-books. I think this may be because, it is felt >>> that although Renaissance lute players >>> may have used what we would recognize as chords, perhaps if they >>> came >>> from a polyphonic tradition >>> they might not have seen them exactly in that light. >>> Did any Renaissance manual give examples of chord shapes? Modern >>> manuals are probably strongly based >>> on the perspective of these old manuals. For example, Damiani's >>> "Method for Renaissance Lute" (which someone >>> on the list recently considered as very complete) gives three voice >>> scales, but no chord patterns as such. >>> I may be completely wrong here, as I am certainly no >>> musicologist. it >>> is just an intuition I have about this. >>> >>> However, I am afraid I have not answered your question. What was the >>> website that you looked at? >>> Was it this one? http://chordlist.brian-amberg.de/en/lute/ >>> rennaissance/ >>> Regards >>> Anthony >>> >>> >>> Le 15 juin 07 à 16:31, Narada a écrit : >>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> Well I'm now utterly confused with regards to chords on the lute. >>>> Can >>>> someone recommend where I can get hold of a definitive book of >>>> chord >>>> shapes for 6 course lute or possibly 8 course or a decent link. The >>>> confusion has arisen out of looking at a website that gives full >>>> barre >>>> chords, which seems to be at odds with other information that I've >>>> got. >>>> >>>> This would be extremely helpful as I would like to transcribed 'Le >>>> Clochard' from guitar to 6 course manually rather than using Guitar >>>> Pro, >>>> so that I can get a better understanding of the transcription >>>> process >>>> >>>> Kindest Regards >>>> >>>> Neil Woodhouse ( UK ) >> > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
