Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 16:02:26 +0100 (BST) From: Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [LUTE] St. John Passion and the Mandora/Gallichon To: Stewart McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Lute Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Much as I would dearly wish that the mandora/gallichon (M/G for short) was the instrument Bach intended, unfortunately I doubt it. The principal reasons outlined below are necessarily brief: To play all the bass notes requires an instrument with at least 8 courses (with the 6th at Eb). In 1724 the M/G in d was a relatively new instrument and all contemporary tablatures, iconography and extant instruments of which I'm aware around this date are only 6 course. The earliest original condition 8 course is the 1748 by Weigert - and the music (tablature)which requires such instruments is in the later 'galant' style. Bach was usually accurate in the naming of instruments and, from its 18thC introduction, the instrument was well known as the Mandora (or Gallichon) in the German States (mostly Northern German) and in the Bohemian part of the Hapsburg empire. The named lute part in the St Matthew Passion is, of course, more idiomatic for the 13 course lute and I see no reason to suppose that he called it so in one source but in another meant a different instrument. Incidentally, I also see no real reason to expect Bach to have been able to compose wonderfully idiomatic music for an instrument which he didn't play. The instruments requested by Kuhnau (NB we don't know if he was actually given permission to but them .... and to hire players) were most probably the large continuo M/Gs pitched in a with a string length 89 to 96cm and 12 frets tied on the neck; often also single strung as the best extant examples: Schorn 1688, Edlinger 1728. Many church ceiling paintings show such large very long single necked instruments. There's evidence that the small d' (later also e') M/G were amateur instruments whereas the large instruments in a seem to have been professional continuo instruments. The St John aria is not playable on the large M/G pitched in a. Martyn PS One part solution to the St John passion problem which I don't believe has been mentioned, is to assume the organ was at high pitch (as often seems to have been the case) and the lute was pitched a tone below thus obliging the piece to be played a tone higher to keep the key relationships: in short transpose it to F and play on a Dm lute a tuned a tone below what the voices are singing at. Stewart McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Mathias, As I understand it, there is an overlap in meaning with gallicon, mandora, and similar words. I'm afraid I can't give chapter and verse for plucked instruments at Leipzig. I probably read about the Leipzig instruments on this list, so maybe someone could provide more information. Best wishes, Stewart. ----- Original Message ----- From: ""Mathias Rösel"" To: "Lutelist" Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: St. John Passion > "Stewart McCoy" schrieb: >> One of the arguments in favour >> of using the mandora is that they bought a couple for the church at >> Leipzig >> when Bach was there. There were over 40 tunings for the mandora, and the >> number of strings can vary. I think I am right in saying that Lynda Sayce >> uses a mandora for this piece. >> >> I once counted the occurrences of the bass notes in Betrachte Meine >> Seele: C >> = 4; D = 14; Eb = 49; E = 8; F = 12; F# = 2; G = 20; Ab = 4; A = 8; Bb = >> 20. >> From that it is clear that one of the bass courses must be tuned to Eb. >> Ideally there would be an open G and an open Bb too. > > > Can't find it in the record, so--was a calichon suggested? With its deep > tuning C - D - G - B - e - a all the bass notes should be easily > reachable on the fretboard. > -- > Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --------------------------------- For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. --------------------------------- For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. --
