> I would imagine it could be binary. Both Tocxin by Denis Gaultier and Toxin by Charles Mouton are gigues in 4/4 metre. I'd go so far as to say that there's a relationship discernible between the pieces of master and student in that both gigues have a very similar opening motif and both share the same rhythmic pattern in each measure of their respective second halves, i. e. with the bass note off-beat on 2nd half of 1st beat. That repeated bass note even being a 4 in both pieces (notwithstanding that it means B with Gaultier, C sharp with Mouton).
With what I heard with Froberger gigues transferred to these 4/4 gigues, you would play them extremely inegale, IOW amounts of crotchets as sharpened ternary units. Gaultier seems to indicate that way of playing by stating rhythm more precisely in each one but last measure of both halves of his gigue. Still, would you perform Tocsin "as loud and fast as possible", i. e. raising connotations of alarm? Mouton seems to indicate something of that kind by using means of chromatic escalation at the conclusions of the 1st half. Mathias > > Tocxin is tocsin in both French and English, an alarm bell which is > > musically depicted by the repeated bass notes. > > > > My former question was concerned with tempo. If it is agreed that > > alarm > > bells would usually be chimed as loud and fast as possible in case of > > emergency, was the gigue which bears that name supposed to be played > > that way, too? > > It's a sequel, so to say, of a short discussion that we had in > > December > > 2003 (Re: binary and ternary GIGUES). > > > > Mathias > > > > > > "Anthony Hind" <anthony.h...@noos.fr> schrieb: > >> Damian > >> "Sonner le tocsin", meant roughly "to ring a peal of warning > >> bells ", but could also mean the bell used for such a warning. This > >> would have come from earlier "touquesain" from Provencal "tocaseneh". > >> It seems that "tocar" (or toquer), distantly related to "touch", > >> comes from Latin "toccre" make a sound like "toc". > >> http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-touch.html > >> and "senh" could be derived from Latin "signum" a sign - a signal, > >> giving ancient French "seing", later "sein", and which took on the > >> meaning of "bell". > >> > >> My source is the historic dictionary of the French language, le > >> Robert, but etymology of a single expression, even backed-up by such > >> a dictionary is rarely safe. > >> Around 1570 and for a certain period, the expression apparently took > >> on a metaphoric meaning (Bossuet) to allert public oppinion. > >> Best wishes > >> Anthony > >> > >> > >> Le 28 déc. 08 à 02:51, damian dlugolecki a écrit : > >> > >>> You are quite right David. I just looked up 'tocsin' in my OED > >>> where the earliest usage in English is in 1598. I just assumed it > >>> was an earlier spelling of 'toxin' which led me to my incorrect > >>> interpretation. Never encountered the word 'tocsin' with that > >>> meaning. The OED reads, "an alarm signal, sounded by ringing a > >>> bell or bells; used orig. and esp. in reference to France." > >>> > >>> Thanks for clearing that up. > >>> > >>> Damian > >>> > >>> > >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier > >>> > >>> > >>>> I might have missed something here, getting into the discussion > >>>> late > >>>> (I rejoined today---hellew everyone), but doesn't the English word > >>>> "tocsin" refer to the pealing of a bell? I always thought "tocsin" > >>>> came from an old form of French. Could some form of the word have > >>>> existed in French in the 17th century with a similar meaning? Used > >>>> perhaps in similar sense to Vallet's piece depicting bells in a > >>>> village church. > >>>> > >>>> Davidr > >>>> dlu...@verizon.net > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:48 PM, damian dlugolecki wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> At the moment this is only a guess, but I believe the 'tocsin' of > >>>>> Mouton and that of D. Gautier have something to do with disease. > >>>>> The word 'toxin' only come into the English language during the > >>>>> 19th century. My OED defines it originally as > >>>>> "A specific poison...produced by a microbe which causes a > >>>>> particular disease.' By this perhaps we can infer that this > >>>>> was closer to the original French meaning than to our current > >>>>> understanding of the word 'toxin' as some kinde of poison. There > >>>>> were many diseases like typhus, smallpox, cholera etc. that wiped > >>>>> out large numbers of > >>>>> people. I need to find a French dictionary like my OED. My > >>>>> Larousse does not have historical meanings or etymologies. > >>>>> > >>>>> In any case, the pieces by Gautier and Mouton are very similar, > >>>>> and it seems to me that the Mouton piece is transposition to f#m > >>>>> of D. Gautier's piece in e minor. The repeated low 'B' has a > >>>>> funerary feeling to me anyway and it appears throughout Mouton's > >>>>> piece as a low C#. But even though it is possible these > >>>>> 'tocsins' > >>>>> were about disease, they are gigues and should be played at faster > >>>>> tempos. Played in the salons of Paris during recurrences of 'la > >>>>> Peste' they were perhaps demonstrations of musical 'black humor.' To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
