Anthony, --- Anthony Hind <anthony.h...@noos.fr> wrote: > Miguel can't believe that harpsichordists used > damping and sustain, > but that lutists completely ignored this practice. >
I'd never argue for this. Its part of intelligent music making. > As to whether the use of wirewound and pure gut > makes a difference, > MS cites tests showing that where wirewounds have a > sustain of about > 6 to 8 seconds, pure gut has about 2 to 3 seconds > (loaded somewhere > between, about 4 to 6, I would guess). Even so, > Miguel argues "that > this is still too long in passages in which the > harmony may change in > a fraction of a second". > At what distance from the lute where this measurements taken? 8 seconds seems like a very, very long time, even with brand new wire wounds. Let's assume for a moment, however, that a player may occasionally hear an isolated note last for 8 seconds, but even a listener seated quite close to the instrument in a small room will never perceive this. One can argue that the resonance of the instrument may be adversly effected by too many close harmonies ringing on. If you've got time and it bothers you, please damp the offending basses. If its going to take a lot of bother and impede the flow of the music, don't bother. (Many times, undamped basses can actually enhance the resonsance.) I must also point out that the comparison between wires and guts was made using modern gut strings. We can't necessarily assume that their guts were the same. > I have heard pieces damped that seem to become too > stacatto (loss of > liason), Quite right. I once brought a recording of a famous lutenist to a recording engineer to give him an idea of the type of sound I admired. After a few moments of listening he said, "Yuck, turn that horrible stuff off! It sounds so awful - nothing but 'chuck!' 'chuck!' chuck!' all the time." The engineer was refering to the player's rapid re-setting of the thumb (Mace's "tut") to avoid clashing basses. It didn't bother me, but I found it ironic that the player had gone to such lengths to make things "correct," yet had produced an end product that someone found extremely ugly. Naturally, the recording specialist was more sensitive to mechanical noises on a recording than most people, but I wondered how many other casual listeners felt the same way. Chris and damping should not necessarilly be used > just to avoid a > clash (the clash might be desirable). However, a > judicious use of > damping could be part of the lute players panoply. > Those who want to > verify Miguel's theory could listen to his latest > recording, and see > whether he has used damping to good effect. > Bets wishes to all > Anthony > > Le 1 janv. 09 à 16:54, <chriswi...@yahoo.com> a > écrit : > > > I don't know whether its a modern practice. > Absence > > of written evidence may mean that it was done so > often > > that it didn't need mentioning. > > > > Even with modern strings, I'm becoming convinced > that > > we fixate on it a little too much. It is much > more > > obvious for the player than for the listener. > Since > > the lute has such a quick attack and rapid > sustain, > > what a player imagines sounding like an out of > control > > pedaled grand piano often sounds pleasantly > resonant > > to someone in front of the lute, even up close. > This > > is particularly true for fairly slow moving lines > or > > bass parts that move in thirds, fourths or fifths. > > > > I'm speaking of maybe 60-75% of general bass > parts. > > One still has to put in the effort to articulate a > > line for musical reasons, however. If its > appropriate > > to the character of a bass line we often have to > go to > > considerable lengths to keep it from sounding like > a > > nondescript legato mush. In sections in which the > > Affekt calls for a staccato character and there > are a > > lot of leaps, its a real workout for the thumb! > > > > Chris > > > > > > --- Edward Martin <e...@gamutstrings.com> wrote: > > > >> I believe it is a modern practice, to utilize the > >> damping effect. I though > >> here actually is a mention in the Gallot > >> instructions about damping basses, > >> but (I believe we discussed this on this list 10 > >> years ago) I had read this > >> in a modern translation, and others pointed out > that > >> the translation into > >> English was faulty, so my previous argument in > favor > >> of finding a reference > >> to damping was wrong. > >> > >> So, to answer your question, the old treatises do > >> not mention damping > >> basses, anywhere. Yes, I think it is a modern > >> practice, to help deal with > >> wound metal bass course, which have too much > >> brightness and sustain, > >> requiring we must do something to tame them down. > >> > >> Since about 1995, I have played only gut on > baroque > >> lute, and I have > >> forgotten how to dampen basses, because it is > >> absolutely unnecessary. > >> > >> Happy NY to you, too! > >> > >> ed > >> > >> > >> > >> At 02:36 PM 1/1/2009 +0100, David van Ooijen > wrote: > >> > >>> --=======AVGMAIL-495CC8700000======= > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >>> > >>> Could it be that the damping of bass strings for > >> baroque lute, to > >>> which much attention is given in many if not all > >> modern methods for > >>> the baroque lute, is a 20th century phenomenon > that > >> has to do with > >>> modern bass strings? Or are there historical > >> sources mentioning this > >>> practice? > >>> > >>> David - happy 2009 to all. Here's my card: > >> > >> > http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/homepage_p.html > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ******************************* > >>> David van Ooijen > >>> davidvanooi...@gmail.com > >>> www.davidvanooijen.nl > >>> ******************************* > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> To get on or off this list see list information > at > >> > >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >>> --=======AVGMAIL-495CC8700000======= > >>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > >>> > >> boundary="=======AVGMAIL-495CC8700000=======" > >>> > >>> --=======AVGMAIL-495CC8700000======= > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; > >> charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >>> Content-Disposition: inline > >>> Content-Description: "AVG certification" > >>> > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 > - > >> Release Date: 12/31/2008 = > >>> 8:44 AM > >>> > >>> --=======AVGMAIL-495CC8700000=======-- > >>> > >>> --=======AVGMAIL-495CC8700000=======-- > >> > >> > >> > >> Edward Martin > === message truncated === To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
