Mudarra, in his "Tres Libros..." of 1546 uses (only once, in #38 Fantasia (quinto tono), Lib. II, f. 14, bar 39) a fret labelled "XI", and it is the eleventh fret (f# in g tuning). Interestingly, in regard to tempering of frets, he never uses f#'s from different courses at the same time.
Regards, Leonard Williams /[ ] / \ | * | \_=_/ On 1/31/09 10:37 AM, "Richard Yates" <rich...@yatesguitar.com> wrote: > Thanks, Dan. Yes, I understand about typos and the various kinds one > encounters, and I think I can usually deduce by ear the correct fret to use. > But the 'XI' symbol for the octave fret is probably not a typo as it (and no > other) is used many times for that fret in the 1566 collections. The puzzle > is that some folks here speculated that 'XI' was used for the octave fret > because he had no eleventh fret. If that speculation is not true then what > symbol WOULD be used for an eleventh fret? The spot I found at > http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/Neusidler.jpg (I think the only eleventh > fret anywhere in those collections) suggests the possibility that 'XI' was > used intentionally for both. But that seems implausible also. If either spot > is a typo, what would have been the correct symbol? > >> Sorry if you thought your question wasn't answered- I thought >> it pretty much was; specifically acknowledgement of the >> ambiguity of some of the fret/note symbols, the typos that >> occur in printed material, etc.- to me, just no big whoop one >> way or the other. I have those two books in one volume of >> Neusidler's works, (fine music >> indeed) and I just play them as I see them, adjusting for the >> typos or ambiguous symbols as they occur. So yes, in the >> Recercar Terzo "XI" is indeed the 12 fret but in the Pass'e >> mezo the same symbol is now the 11th fret, and so it goes. >> Nothing further to unravel once the right notes are found. >> I've actually found far worse typos in other parts of the >> book- don't recall where off hand, if you run into them I'll >> be happy to help out if possible. I think one cadence >> somewhere was still a bit of a puzzle for me the last time I >> read through it. >> >> Dan >> >> >>> Perhaps it was overlooked in the surge of new threads, or maybe my >>> question was just an uninteresting one with an obvious solution, but >>> any response to the example I found below about the >> mysterious Melchior >>> eleventh fret would be much appreciated. RY >>> >>>> I ran across another spot that confounds the question of the >> eleventh >>>> fret and its notation. In the Pass'e mezo Milanese there is a 'XI' >>>> symbol on the second course. It sounds to me like it should >> be played >>>> on the eleventh fret in contrast to other places (e.g. >> Recercar Terzo) >>>> where 'XI' seems to mean >>>> twelfth (i.e. octave) fret. Can anyone unravel this one? >> >> >> -- >> > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html