I am extremely sceptical about this claim, if only for the
insignificant change in pitch which would be achieved by an
additional
depression of say 0.5mm (ie from stopping the string without
bottoming
to the fingerboard and fully depressed) . By way of an example: the
increase in string length of a 64cm string depressed at half its
length
by 0.5mm is only about 0.0008mm! (Pythagorus theorem: square root of
[320x320+0.5x0.5]) ie an increase of a mere 0.000125% ..............
can any human ear detect this?
MH
--- On Wed, 18/3/09, damian dlugolecki <dam...@teleport.com> wrote:
From: damian dlugolecki <dam...@teleport.com>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hi guys, nylon frets...
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>,
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Wednesday, 18 March, 2009, 5:17 PM
One touches the strings with much less pressure than say, the
guitar.
There is no need to push the string down so that it touches the
fingerboard. I find that I can adjust my touch to compensate for
notes
that with more pressure, would sound sharp. When I first
encountered
the need to fret my lute with thicker frets I was a bit alarmed
as
well, but believe me, playing a lute with thicker frets has no
disadvantages whatever. I consulted with the maker, Andy
Rutherford
at
this time and he agreed that the lute played and sounded
beautifully
and did not want to tamper with nut any more than what he had
done.
So
I joined this thread to counter the notion that somehow large
frets
are
a bad thing.
DD
Not really true that thicker frets have 'no drawback' - the use
of
thinner frets (but still graduated by the same amount from
lowest to
highest) allows the lute to be set more 'fine' than with thicker
frets
ie the distance required to depress the string to the
fingerboard is
less. Conversely, if one so desired, the use of even thicker
frets
(but
still with the same amount of overall graduation) would result
in a
very significant increase in the distance required to depress a
string
and concomitant difficulties of execution.
MH
--- On Wed, 18/3/09, damian dlugolecki <[1]dam...@teleport.com>
wrote:
From: damian dlugolecki <[2]dam...@teleport.com>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hi guys, nylon frets...
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>,
[4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Wednesday, 18 March, 2009, 3:47 AM
The projection of the string is determined by the height of
the
nut
and
the holes in the bridge. If the neck has a set or slight
warp,
thicker
frets will be called for and that thickness will be
determined by
the
projection of the strings.
I used to use much thinner frets but as Dan Winheld has noted,
there
is
no drawback whatever to using thicker frets.
Cordially,
Damian
Why don't you try a much thinner 9th fret (say 0.50mm) which
not
only
fits with Dowland's fretting advice (the principal historic
source
of
fret sizes) but would also enable you to have smaller lower
frets,
say
down to 0.90mm and thereby set the lute 'fine'?
MH
--- On Tue, 17/3/09, damian dlugolecki
<[1][1][5]dam...@teleport.com>
wrote:
From: damian dlugolecki <[2][2][6]dam...@teleport.com>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hi guys, nylon frets...
To: "Daniel Winheld" <[3][7]dwinh...@comcast.net>,
[4][8]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Tuesday, 17 March, 2009, 3:52 AM
"Using the thinnest frets that you can get away with" is a
basic
premise for fretting, but there are many lutes where the
neck has
set
(but hopefully not twisted)
where heavy frets are called for. My baroque lute represents
just
such
an instance where everything is fine except that much thicker
frets
are
called for and more
care in selecting sizes to taper up to the 10th fret. Here is
the
fret
scheme for my lute:
frets
1,2,3 1.25 mm
4,5 1.20 "
6 1.10 "
7 1.05 "
8 1.00 "
9 .95 "
10 .85 "
So if you find you need heavier frets, do not be alarmed. My
lute
plays beautifully, there is no undue wear on the strings on
the
finger
board,
and everything is in tune. You may have to invest in some
fret
gut,
but like tuning, it's part of the job.
Damian
Please visit my web site at www.damianstrings.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Winheld"
<[3][5][9]dwinh...@comcast.net>
To: <[4][6][10]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hi guys, nylon frets...
Dana- this seems like excellent advice & cautions in regard to
nylon
frets. In line with that, I would also advise noting what the
neck
and fingerboard are made of- ebony fingerboard with ebony
veneered
neck would seem to be best; in any case the hardest, toughest
woods
possible would be in order.
Anything else, especially if the lute is of some value, could
be
counter productive so why not go with the easier, safer, and in
any
case better sounding traditional alternative?
That said, I would also advise the thinnest frets that you
could
get
away with. Dowland's advice seems appropriate here; he starts
with
4th course for the first two frets (.85 - .90 mm), next two of
3rd
course size, (.70-ish) 5th & 6th fret, 2nd course; and the rest
trebles.
Also single frets would be best; while the traditional doubles
are
rarely used by modern lutenists anyway, only gut doubles will
"bed
down" properly for cleanest sound. Attempting to get enough
tension
for tightness, and for the fret to lie flat near the
fingerboard
edges at the first fret position with 1.15 nylon would take two
gorillas with vice grip pliers. And a titanium neck with carbon
fingerboard.
Dan
Nylon can be made to work, but it even more of a pain in the
proverbial
than gut. It is stronger than most neck woods and will leave
an
indentation; some like that, it marks where the fret goes.
Others
dislike
it for the same reason, get it wrong and you are stuck. The
knots
are
prickly, and burning them makes noxious smoke which you really
shouldnt
inhale.
Nylon is probably longer lasting than gut, but not forever, I
have
had
nylon frets break.
I switched to gut a long time ago and far prefer it.
The first fret is particularly challenging as you have so
little
room
above it to use in stretching the knot tighter; I always found
pliers
necesary on the first fret; leave the ends long enough that
you
can
grip
away from the knot, then wrap a length around the jaws, you
dont
want to
be squashing the nylon to get a grip anywhere near the knot.
--
Dana Emery
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[5][7][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[8][12]dam...@teleport.com
2. mailto:[9][13]dam...@teleport.com
3.
[10][14]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dwinh...@comcas
t.net
4.
[11][15]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmou
th.edu
5. [12][16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
[17]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
2.
[18]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
3.
[19]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=dwinh...@comcast.net
4.
[20]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
5.
[21]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=dwinh...@comcast.net
6.
[22]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. [23]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8.
[24]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
9.
[25]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
10.
[26]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=dwinh...@comcast.net
11.
[27]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dwinh...@comcast.net
8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dwinh...@comcast.net
10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
14. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dwinh...@comcast.net
15. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
17. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
18. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
19. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dwinh...@comcast.net
20. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
21. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dwinh...@comcast.net
22. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
23. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
24. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
25. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dam...@teleport.com
26. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dwinh...@comcast.net
27. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?
to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
