Pepys refers to his 'lute' and 'theorboe lute' interchangeably. We know
he's talking about the same instrument since he took it to be altered
and mentions seeing it whilst the work was being underatken.
MH
--- On Mon, 23/11/09, David Tayler <vidan...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: David Tayler <vidan...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double headed lute pic?
To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Monday, 23 November, 2009, 1:08
The term theorbo lute most likely refers in a general way to a lute
that has been theorboed, or had modifcation to the neck, or is built
from scratch to resemble the earlier layer of lutes which were so
modified.
As with all terms involving the word "lute" there are many
definitions possible, but the term is used in contemporaneous
writings in a a very general way. Similarly, although a number of
tunings are possible, one can only make a reasonable guess as to the
tuning unless tab is in the picture or there are other clues. Looking
carefully at all the instruments in Dutch 17th century paintings, it
is pretty clear that the Dutch had their own style as far as lutes
are concerned, but the style is certainly more French than Italian in
certain repects, so perhaps the influence of Gaultier here is the
strongest, as you suggest. An analysis of Dutch musical style based
on the few surviving sources is less clear, like many Dutch sources
there is a wide variety of intrinsic styles mixed with international
influences.
As with all lutes with modified necks, there are always some that
just more difficult to classify than others, and of this group, one
of the most problematic is the type in which a branching pegbox seems
halfway or some way towards a neck extension yet apparently still
within the realm of a modified peg box. In other words, a bass rider
or chamtarelle is not an extended neck, but a full extra pegbox will
often need a neck graft of some sort. The problem is that an extended
neck of say 10-20cm could be strung and tuned the same as a branching
pegbox, so classification becomes more of a guess. Some of these
instruments almost look as though the pegbox were sliced in half and
half of the pegs then bent at angle, which then does seem more of a
modified pegbox than an extended neck, but some of them add a tiny
bit of string length for obvious reasons of sound, thus placing them
more in the theorbo camp.
Arbitrarily, I would say that there is a sort of difference between a
branched pegbox and an extended neck from an organological point of,
but there may be no difference in tuning or repertory as even the
branch has the effect of extending the string depending on the
position of the nut.
dt
At 04:04 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote:
>This type of lute is probably the most depicted type of lute by the
=20
>dutch masters. It was the kind of lute that Jaques Gautier intruduced
=20=
>
>into England. Where it became known as the theorbo-lute. If one looks
=20=
>
>closely at the painting the lute has been painted in perfect =20
>perspective. Taking into account that the player (i.e. the painter)
=20
>plays it holding his instrument in an almost vertical position.
>Which means that the place where one can check the perspective in =20
>relation to the fingerboard is very close to his right leg.
>
>Cheers!
>
>Lex van Sante
>
>
>Op 22 nov 2009, om 23:05 heeft Jaros=B3aw Lipski het volgende =
>geschreven:
>
>>Probably it's similar to the lute seen on Hendrik Martensz Sorgh =20
>>(1611 -1670) "The lute player" in Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam. You can =20
>>see it on David van Edwards site too =
>[1]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/history3.htm=20
>> fig.10.
>>Best
>>
>>Jaroslaw
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: ""Mathias R=F6sel"" =
><[2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de=20
>> >
>>To: "'Lute Net'" <[3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 8:13 PM
>>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double headed lute pic?
>>
>>
>>>There's another that shows this type invovled in a duet with a =20
>>>keyboard:
>>>[4]http://www.salvatorefiorillo.it/Concert%28Vermeer%29.jpg
>>>
>>>Mathias
>>>
>>>"wolfgang wiehe" <[5]wie-w...@gmx.de> schrieb:
>>>>This lute is present in other pictures of van mieris:
>>>>=
>[6]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Brothel_Scene_16
58_Fr
>>>>ans_van_Mieris.jpg
>>>>Or here?:
>>>>[7]http://www.nga.gov/press/exh/228/assets/228-012-lrg.jpg
>>>>=
>[8]http://images.artnet.com/images_US/magazine/reviews/karlins/karlins
3-16-
>>>>9.jpg
>>>>W.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>Von: [9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[10]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im
>>>>Auftrag von "Mathias R=F6sel"
>>>>Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. November 2009 18:00
>>>>An: Lute Net
>>>>Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double headed lute pic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thank you, Morgan, this is marvelous. Never mind the explanation
=20
>>>>of the
>>>>double headed lute, but I've never before heard someone explain =20
>>>>the art
>>>>of painting in such a physical way.
>>>>
>>>>Mathias
>>>>
>>>>"morgan cornwall" <[11]mcornw...@ns.sympatico.ca> schrieb:
>>>> > Stuart,
>>>> >
>>>> > this may help:
>>>> >
>>>> > Van Mieris - Self Portrait from the Uffizi Gallery
>>>> >
>>>> > [12]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0FdSIys2XfI
>>>> >
>>>> > regards,
>>>> > morgan
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Stuart Walsh" <[13]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
>>>> > To: "Lute Net" <[14]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 4:37 PM
>>>> > Subject: [LUTE] Double headed lute pic?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > >I came across this image recently - possibly a chap playing a
>>>> > > double-headed lute. So (?) Dutch or English? Perhaps it's =20
>>>>from a
>>>> > > well-known painting? I only had a camera phone and it was shot
=20=
>
>>>>at an
>>>>
>>>> > > angle to avoid the flash glaring against the glass. I've =20
>>>>cropped the
>>>>
>>>> > > writing underneath- but you can't see it clearly anyway - it
=20
>>>>says
>>>> > > something like 'micris' with some kind of diacritical twiddle
=20=
>
>>>>over
>>>>the
>>>> > > letter c (if it is a c).
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [15]http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/dhlute.jpg
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Stuart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>[16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
--
References
1. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/history3.htm=20
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mathias.roe...@t-online.de
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://www.salvatorefiorillo.it/Concert%28Vermeer%29.jpg
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wie-w...@gmx.de
6. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Brothel_Scene_1658_Fr
7. http://www.nga.gov/press/exh/228/assets/228-012-lrg.jpg
8. http://images.artnet.com/images_US/magazine/reviews/karlins/karlins3-16-
9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mcornw...@ns.sympatico.ca
12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0FdSIys2XfI
13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
14. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
15. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/dhlute.jpg
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
