Thank you, Martin.
88cm. I've never seen a 6-c that long but that doesn't mean much. If
someone really wanted one in the 16th century I'm sure some builder
was happy to oblige. My bass lute is a meagre 72cm which I push down
to a D and I have an E at 68cm so I'm almost ready to go. I should
have an A lute but don't mind the small rewrite necessary to press the
ren guitar into service instead. As you well know, no-one plays
Pacaloni without it being edited first.
We just played some Pacaloni and followed it with complementary custom
settings of the 266 and Diversi Autori versions of La Traditora.
Between the two of us we got to pull out a lot of instruments and some
of it wasn't what was advertised on the tin. Then there was the
Mazolo(DA) trio'd for r. guitar, diatonic cittern and harp. Such great
--and fun-- music: it's hard to imagine it didn't spill out to other
instruments or hadn't been for others before. I (self-servedly)
believe that any of these early dance books were merely jumping off
points for the enterprising lutenist considering all those overlapping
dances from the 1540's and then all those zillions of Anticoes from
the '50's to the '80's. I've Fronimoed at least a 100 variations for a
similar 'currently-coasting' project.
Do blow the dust off the Pacaloni edits and perhaps consider letting
the UK LS put it out. (Or maybe offer it as a complementary set when
someone orders a Pacaloni trio of instruments from you!). We might
even have a few that you didn't edit yet. It would be a nice addition
to the Lynda Sayce editions of the Phalese duets and get more other-
size lutes into play.
Sean
On Jun 3, 2011, at 2:26 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Hi Sean,
There's no reckoning involved - it's just nice if you can get hold of
the instrument, but it does need to be c.88cm.
The D, E, A combination is easier to obtain and does work well. Often
a lute of about 67cm will tune happily to E.
I think there's no doubt the Pacoloni we have is somewhat removed from
the original, though of course it's impossible to know whether the
original was any less incompetent in the matter of root position
chords when they should be first inversions, and so on. (the classic
case, which happens over and over again, is C major harmony where one
lute has an E in the bass, harmonized as root position, i.e. E minor).
The nature of the arrangements is interesting. Many pieces seem to
have what amounts to a solo in the Tenor part (e.g. the "Tant que
vivray" set) with the Superius providing a descant. You're absolutely
right that some of the pieces can work as duets or have other parts
added. Many years ago I edited a substantial chunk of this material
but never got around to publishing it. Let me know if you're
interested to have any of it for playing with the addition of double-
slide music stand, bagpipe, etc.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 02/06/2011 17:51, Sean Smith wrote:
That's very interesting, Martin.
What is the reckoning behind the bass lute in C? How long is that?!
It probably sounds very impressive but I think the trios can sound
pretty strong in most ranges. I'll agree, the small lute in d is
pretty shrill but in a dance situation it would cut through the
stomping on hardwood floors, gabbing gossipers and, possibly, the
scraping of plates.
I've often wondered if Pacaloni was offering a set of books that
could be used in ensembles for _as many as_ three lutes and _also_
(though tacitly) in a variety of tunings and combinations (as did
Hume although he was more forethcoming about the variety) ie, he was
writing for many possibilities. Many, if not all, can work as duos
and the upper parts can even function as solos w/ a little raiding
of other parts for divisions or structure. With the addition of the
Viaera cittern parts the instrumental possibilities again expand.
For us, that expanded yet again w/ the addition of a bass cittern
into the mix.
Then yet yet again, the books come about fairly late and they may
even have been pirated from his notes or ...who knows? There's a lot
of guesswork in Pacaloni and I'm afraid I use it to the advantage of
whichever instruments are around. Or we feel like tuning up. Or
humans to play them. Or what key we want to be in.
On the subject of the descant lute though. I must confess that I
enjoy playing it for solo rep. There's an awful lot that doesn't
work on it (haha, Bakfark! Suzanne! Dowland!) but there's plenty
that does. And it's so delightfully portable!
best wishes,
Sean
On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Hi All,
The Tieffenbrucker ("WE" = Wendelin Eberle?) lute which everyone
makes a version of is actually 44cm. I agree with Sean, it is
possible to tune it to d'' at modern pitch with nylon strings, but
it is the equivalent of tuning your 59cm "G lute" up to a', so not
recommended. Last year I finally did the experiment - low tension,
all gut strings in c'', and it suddenly sounded right. Sometimes we
need to trust the historical evidence!
Best wishes,
Martin
P.S. By the way, the "correct" way to play Pacoloni (no half
measures) is bass in C, tenor in D, treble in G. But a tone higher
than that is good (easier to find suitable instruments), and even F,
G, C is good. Anything which involves regarding a G lute as a
"bass" is a bit of a joke.
On 02/06/2011 15:10, Sean Smith wrote:
Short answer, Anton: There are plenty of duos for 4th apart. and
there are plenty of duos for 5th apart. There has been little to no
information about how to pitch the smaller instrument --or even the
larger. Specify which and your playing audience will find the
instruments. I find 4th apart to be very useful.
In the 1990's there was an American builder who built quite a few
Tieffenbrucker descant copies at a 43cm mensur. There don't seem to
be any other models to build from. Unfortunately that length is
just a little long for a D instrument and although it will reach
with a nylon topstring it sounds shrill to my ears. With few people
having an F lute this has been the defacto descant in D for the
Pacaloni trios. The Vallet quartets demand two instruments an
octave apart so the descant must be a D.
When we found a shorter descant (40cm) the shrill factor decreased
considerably and we use the "Tieffenbrucker" in C where it is
considerably happier. F-tenor and C-descant make a very good 5th
apart pair, too.
Ed Martin has a collection of vihuelas including a descant. I'd be
curious as to its length, tuning and topstring. Ed?
Best wishes and thanks for all the music!
Sean
On Jun 2, 2011, at 3:07 AM, Anton Höger wrote:
hi,
is the tuning for the Sopran lute in "c" or "d"?
I mean the open highest string of the sopran lute?
Thanks
Aton
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