[LUTE] Re: Wikipedia

[Monica Hall]

What happens if you happen to be one of the  scholarly third parties?
Monica

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roman Turovsky" <r.turov...@gmail.com>
To: "lutenet" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:35 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Wikipedia


Wikipedia has strict rules against Original Research,
all information must be reliably sourced to scholarly 3rd parties.
So in the contest beteen Grove and Monica the former would still trump
the latter.
RT


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
To: "A. J. Ness" <arthurjn...@verizon.net>
Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:35 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Wikipedia


Dear Art

Yes - I just did.   What a lot of meaningless jargon.   Wikipedia is a 
mixed blessing but it does have one advantage - it can be updated very 
quickly.

The entry for Santiago de Murcia gives his  correct biographical details 
but Grove On Line still has the largely fictional biography of him - in 
spite of the fact that I complained about when it was first written and 
more recently after Alejandro Vera had unearthed his baptismal and burial 
records.   A lot of the other entries relating to the baroque guitar in 
Groves are also inaccurate but the current editorial staff couldn't care 
less.

Moral of this tale - never believe what other people say....

I must plead guilty to occasionally amending Wiki entries myself when I 
have nothing better to do!

Monica.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "A. J. Ness" <arthurjn...@verizon.net>
To: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers


Dear Monica,

Take a look at the article "Pitch" in W'pedia.  It's pure jargon. 
Sometimes
these articles are written by persons without an understanding of the
subject manner.  So they emphasize (or try to emphasize) what they 
cannot
understand, as here.  And bibliographies are usually deficient of the 
basic
sources, e.g., Ellis and Mendel.

A few years ago there was an article in the Boston Globe about two high
school students (ca. 17 year olds) who (between the two of them) had 
written
1000 articles for the Wikipedia.  That is an explanation for the poor
quality of many articles.  But looks good on a college application.  (As
does playing the lute.<g>)

Arthur.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
To: "Mark Wheeler" <l...@pantagruel.de>
Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:42 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers


Well - I would take anything Wikipedia said with a large pinch of salt.
I have just finished reading Hywel Williams study of Charlemagne and 
the
Carolingian Empire which has a couple of pages on the subject of spread 
of
Roman chant northwards.  He says nothing about the clergy being forced 
to
use it on pain of death.

I can't quote the whole section in the book but needless to say it was
much more complicated than that.   Among other things chant as 
performed
in Rome did not remain static.  There were significant changes to it
during the period in question.

What Williams concludes by saying is -

"A uniform chant remained the Carolingian goal and  a New Hymnal was
issued during the reign of Louis the Pious (Charlemagne's son).   But
Gregorian chant as it evolved during the next two centuries was a
synthesis of Carolingian, ancient Roman and the Gallican plainchant 
which
had prevailed under the Merovingians".

Monica


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Wheeler" <l...@pantagruel.de>
To: "Tony" <ascbrigh...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:11 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers


Ironically fitting for this thread, the domination of Gregorian Chant
over other forms of chant came through the use of extremely draconian
methods...

"Gregorian chant appeared in a remarkably uniform state across Europe
within a short time. Charlemagne, once elevated to Holy Roman Emperor,
aggressively spread Gregorian chant throughout his empire to 
consolidate
religious and secular power, requiring the clergy to use the new
repertory on pain of death."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_chant

Mark




On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:01 AM, Tony wrote:


  Thanks Gary
  I tried to find information about  what the church prohibited in
  medieval and renaissance Europe( some of you here may have some 
useful
  links) While searching for the Council of Trent I came across this
  list, a summary of approved  music

  The Church's doctrine on liturgical music can be summarized in 
seven
  points ....

  1 Types of Music Appropriate for the Mass. The music of the Mass 
and
  the Sacred Liturgy of the must be either Gregorian Chant, or must 
be
  similar to Gregorian Chant. The primary example of music similar to
  Gregorian Chant is Sacred Polyphony, exemplified by the 
compositions
of
  Palestrina.

  2 Characteristics of Music Appropriate for the Mass. The music of 
the
  Mass must have "grandeur yet simplicity; solemnity and majesty," 
and
  must have "dignity," and "gravity," should be "exalted" and 
"sublime,"
  should bring "splendor and devotion" to the liturgy, and must be
  conducive to prayer and liturgical participation, rather than
  distracting the listener from prayer. It must be music that befits 
the
  profound nature of the Mass, which is the Sacrifice of Jesus 
Christ.
As
  Pope Paul VI put it: "The primary purpose of sacred music is to 
evoke
  God's majesty and to honor it. But at the same time music is meant 
to
  be a solemn affirmation of the most genuine nobility of the human
  person, that of prayer."

  3 Types of Musical Instruments Appropriate for the Mass. The
instrument
  that is most "directly" fitted for the Mass is the classical pipe
  organ. Other instruments, however, can be adapted to the Mass,
  including wind instruments, and smaller bowed instruments.

  4 Types of Music Prohibited in the Mass. All secular and 
entertainment
  styles of music are utterly prohibited in the Mass. The 
introduction
of
  inappropriate music into the liturgy is regarded as "deplorable
  conduct."

  5 Types of Instruments Prohibited in the Mass. All "noisy or
frivolous"
  instruments are prohibited for use in the Mass.The specific
instruments
  named by the Popes have included guitars, pianos, drums, cymbals, 
and
  tambourines. "Bands" also are prohibited, as are all automated 
forms
of
  music (recordings, automatic instruments, etc).

  6 Adapting Musical Traditions of Indigenous Cultures, and
  "Universality." The musical traditions of particular cultures can 
and
  should be incorporated into the Sacred Liturgy, but only in such a 
way
  that they will be recognized as sacred ("good" in the words of Pope
St.
  Pius X) by people of all cultures. That is, all such music must 
have
  the characteristic of "universality."

  7 Preserving the Church's Musical Tradition. The treasury of the
  Church's sacred music is to be carefully preserved, rather than
  discarded

  aEUR|written in 2002 ..... [1]http://www.matthewhoffman.net/music/

  I guess compiled by a traditionalist - I know people who go to
churches
  in the UK and Latin America where these rules are vigorously 
flouted

  And resumably the lute is a  'noisy' instrument associated with
  thedreadful  frivolities of pianos and guitars
  Tony

  ---

  --

References

  1. http://www.matthewhoffman.net/music/


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