The important number is not the bridge or nut, but the spacing at the
plucking point, which is derived from the string length, and the
overall spacing plan, plus the thickness of the strings.
Unless you go "close parallel", which is more common on early
instruments, 5mm is going to wing up being just on the edge. BUT you
can of course widen it at the other end.
And there, it depends a lot on the circumference of your fourth finger
of the left hand when stopping the string. That needs to feel "just
right" to execute fast trills.
dt
__________________________________________________________________
From: Anthony Hart <resea...@monsignor-reggio.com>
To: lute <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 2:51:18 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good
lute?
whilst on the subject of lute set up, I have a question of the action
of
the bass courses of a 14c Liuto attiorbato. I have found several
suggestions concerning the ideal height of the bass strings above the
finger board.
1. The strings should be about 5mm at the lower nut.
2. The strings should be in the same plane as the stopped strings.
From observation from drawings:
1. A drawing of the 1639 Sellas instrument (upon which my instrument is
based)by Robert Lundberg the top nut appears to be slightly lower than
the
line of the finger board. Also the upper nut appears to have a slight
curve, as with a violin bridge, making the lowest course slightly lower
than the preceding ones.
2. A drawing of the Railich instrument shows the line of the bass
courses
higher than the stopped ones.
These observations are based on the thumbnail views from the
appropriate
websites so exact measurements not possible.
Any other ideas?
Many thanks
Anthony
> David,
> Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string
spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player
struggles
> with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before
jumping
to
> erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's
posture
and
> hand position/technique are not the real culprits.
> Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to
struggle
with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because
they
> are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that
their
arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required. For
example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern
'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a
relatively
> low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch
difficulties
which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the
instrument
> resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early
representations).
This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the
player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the
left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may
be
> more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more
upright
position also helps since it better fits with the
> arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left
arm.
> The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm
stretch
> and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm
string length to around 90cm.
> Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than
close
> to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from
bridge
to
> nut will result in a small, but noticeable, reduction in string
separation at the actual plucking point which is not the fault of the
string spacing at the bridge but of the player's own technique.
Finally, specifically with regard to the theorbo, as Lynda Sayce
points out ([1][1]http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm), if a
theorbo player is trying to employ ordinary lute fingered chords,
rather than those appropriate to the theorbo, they may also struggle.
In short, before blaming an instrument's size and specification the
player should look to themselves first and ensure the problem isn't
with their own posture and technique.
> Martyn
> --- On Mon, 9/4/12, David Tayler <[2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> From: David Tayler <[3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
> To: "lute" <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Monday, 9 April, 2012, 22:27
> Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also
the
> wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change
anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they
> either
> keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size.
So
I would rate size and setup as the number one issue, based on
my
> experience that the player will have to go through a very long
retraining period
> after learning on a lute that is the wrong size. Why pedal
> backwards?
> Of the setup issues, the number one issue is the span and
spacing.
Without the right span and spacing, which reconciles two numbers,
> the
> size of the hand (and fingers) and the rules which govern the
span
> and
> spacing of strings. Without these two numbers in balance, it is
impossible, or very difficult to make a good sound.
> When these numbers are in balance, it is easy to make a good
sound;
> in
> fact, it is difficult to make a bad sound. No one would wear
size
4
> or
> size 11 shoes if they are a size 9, and yet, that is precisely
what
> happens. Sadly, people are rarely fitted to the lute, even
though
> the
> lute is from the age of "custom made". Equally sadly, most
people
do
> not understand the basic physics of twang, thwack and pluck,
which
involves some simple experiments with a special bridge and nut
that
> are
> universally adjustable. Generally speaking, and I mean VERY
> generally,
> the plucking-point spacing is wrong, that is, the place where
you
actually pluck the string, and it is almost always too narrow.
> However,
> it is the ratio of the bridge to nut, factoring the string
length,
> and
> figured at YOUR plucking point that gives numbers for the "thou
> shalt
> not buzz" dimensions. Empirically, anyone can see that the
spacing
> is
> different at any point on the string.
> A player with years of experience can give you some advice,
after
watching you play, about the setup. You may have to compromise
> somewhat
> on the overall span, or use a sliding scale so that the treble
has
> more
> room.
> After these two biggies, there is a seemingly endless list of
> features,
> all of which are important. And here you will need some
experience
> to
> guide you.
> However, I would add that most lutes made nowadays are not
copies
of
> originals. They are rescaled, resized, rebarred, rebridged,
reglued,
> revarnished.
> Available is everything: everything-except-original.
> Now, you may want that. Personally, I think everyone needs a
reality
> check instrument that is a copy of an original. Otherwise, it is
> just a
> guitar, basically, with wonky pegs.
> Since you asked about sound in your list, it is no fun playing a
monochromatic instrument of any kind, but that is just a personal
preference. I would say most lutes made today lean towards
monochromatic.
> Main thing is to make a good sound. If you aren't making a
beautiful
> sound, it isn't you: your lute is set up wrong, is the wrong
size,
> or
> both.
> Lute players may think that their feet are the wrong size, but
when
> you
> think about it, this cannot be the case. Everyone is different,
and
> the
> instrument must fit.
> My teacher told me that you don't choose a lute, it chooses you.
> Maybe
> that is true.
> dt
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: William Samson <[2][5]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: Lute List <[3][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Sat, April 7, 2012 6:25:47 AM
> Subject: [LUTE] What makes a good lute?
> I haven't really got much to add to the subject line. I've
been
chatting with Rob about this and various points have emerged
I'd
> be
> interested in hearing what priorities you might put on the
various
> characteristics of a lute in deciding if it's 'good' or
otherwise.
> The kinds of things that have come up are (in no particular
> order):
> * playability (action, string spacing etc)
> * sound (which I can't easily define)
> * authenticity of design/construction
> * materials used
> * quality of craftsmanship
> * reputation of maker
> Of course these are rather broad headings and might easily be
> refined,
> clarified or broken down.
> Thoughts, please?
> Bill
> --
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1][4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
> References
> 1.
[5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
> --
> References
> 1. [9]http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm
> 2.
[10]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
> 3.
[11]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
__________________________________________________________________
Anthony
Hart MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
Musicologist and Independent Researcher
Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
Tel: +356 27014791; Mob: +356 9944 9552.
e-mail: [14]resea...@antoninoreggio.com;
web: www.monsignor-reggio.com
--
References
1. http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm
2. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
3. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
9. http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm
10. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
11. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
