It is not as simple as that. The die has to be lubricated to pass
heated wire, and as I recall brass was too hot for the die, until the
discovery that urine could be used for that process.
I recall that this is the main argument against pre-1300 musical wire
mythology in general.
It took some time to develop wire that was sufficiently uniform for
musical purposes (i.e. used by itself, without gut), probably at least
another 100+ years.
And if remember correctly the musical wire has to be brass, bronze is
too soft and doesn't work.
RT
On 7/10/2012 5:25 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:
A contemporary metallurgist probably knows mainly modern techniques.
This is the quotation from "The Early English Copper and Brass Industries to
1800" by H. Hamilton:
Up to the Elizabethan period, copper or brass wire was drawn by hand in Britain
by a very primitive process. One method consisted of two men seated on swings
facing one another with a narrow strip of brass fastened to a belt round each
man's waist. By propelling the swings with their feet they could swing apart
and gradually produce a crude type of wire by stretching the brass. (15) Wire
was also made by the equally laborious process of hammering, until that was
superseded by drawing; this latter process is believed to have been invented at
Nuremberg in the 14th Century. At first, drawn wire was pulled through a die by
hand, but later by machinery driven by water- or horse-power.
Regards
JL
Wiadomo¶æ napisana przez Roman Turovsky w dniu 10 lip 2012, o godz. 19:55:
The way it was explained to me by a metallurgist: drawing brass requires lube
that wouldn't burn at the teperature necessary to draw. And that lagged a bit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 10, 2012, at 1:08 PM, Jaros³aw Lipski <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl> wrote:
It was not a matter of lubrication but rather problems with melting zinc metal.
However brass wire was used in England during Shakespearean times and in some
places even much earlier. It was produced from calamine (found in the Mendip
hills in Somerset). The full info you can find at
http://www.copper.org/publications/newsletters/innovations/2000/01-brasses/history_brass.html
All best
JL
Wiadomo¶æ napisana przez Roman Turovsky w dniu 10 lip 2012, o godz. 17:40:
much later, I think. the lubrication essential for drawing brass wire wasn't
invented until a couple of centuries after 1300's.
RT
7/10/2012 9:26 AM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote:
Brass strings (or an alloy closer to bronze) were used on irish and scottish
harps from the 1300s onward. It would not be surprising that a lute player
might possibly use them for bass strings. I shudder to think what tension they
might have pulled on those strings, though. trj
-----Original Message-----
From: alexander <voka...@verizon.net>
To: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>; Stuart
Walsh <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 9, 2012 9:37 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: brass strings on 15th century lutes - testament of loading
t does translate as loading?, rather then a separate strings, which appears to
rove Mimmo Peruffo's insight.
lexander r.
n Mon, 09 Jul 2012 14:00:00 +0100
Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I am not a Latin scholar but the relevant passage reads as follows:
His autem chordis ex arietum intestinus communiter factis: sunt qui
germanica inventione: gravissime quandam aliam ei per diapason consonantem
adjiciunt eneam: Qua concentus non modo itidem fortior. verum etiam longe
suavior efficitur.
Perhaps some one who knows some Latin could comment.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Andrico" <praelu...@hotmail.com>
To: <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>; <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:32 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: brass strings on 15th century lutes
Hello Stuart:
Since no one else seems to have answered your question, I'll contribute
a few words.
Tinctoris' mention of brass octave strings has been repeated
willy-nilly throughout the spate of "performer's guides" to early music
that have been published over the last twenty years or so, and it is
even found in Matthew Spring's history of the lute. The information,
as near as I can judge, seems to be derived from an article Anthony
Baines, "Fifteenth-Century Instruments in Tinctoris's _De Inventione et
Usu Musicae_", Galpin Society Journal III, p19-26 (1950). I have this
article lying about somewhere and have quoted from it myself, but I am
told some interpretive questions have been raised concerning Baines'
translation of the passage, quoted here:
"And further, to provide a stronger sound, an additional string may be
conjoined to any string and tuned to the octave, though not when
conjoined
to the first string. The strings are generally of Ram's gut, but there
is
also the German invention in which another [set of] brass string[s] is
added, tuned very deeply through an octave."
Practically speaking, there is some ambiguity here, and the reference
could just as well mean that brass was used in the lower octave rather
than the upper. Then there is the possibility that what we see here is
an early mention of brass overspun strings. I'm sure some string
enthusiasts on this discussion list would have a thing or two to say
about that.
I hope this helps.
RA
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 22:52:51 +0100
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
From: s.wa...@ntlworld.com
Subject: [LUTE] brass strings on 15th century lutes
(perhaps this has been discussed before)
Tinctoris (c.1480) "commented on the German invention of brass
strings
[on lutes] which were added 'tuned very deeply through an octave' by
means of which 'the sound is rendered not only stronger, but also
very
much sweeter'." (Keith Polk, German Instrumental Music of the Middle
Ages p.22, 1992).
Polk, somewhere else in the same book, talks about the 'ever reliable
Tinctoris'. I've never heard of wire-strung lutes (apart from
lute-bodied citterns in the late 18th century).
Anyone know what Tinctoris is talking about?
Stuart
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