Thanks! Yes - there are many similarities, but the main pegbox in the Platzer theorbo isn't bent back like the one in the Vignale painting.
Bill From: "theoj89...@aol.com" <theoj89...@aol.com> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013, 19:47 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute painting I'll try again: [1]http://www.lutevoice.com/luteiconography/Page%204.html Got to the painting by J.G. Platzer; an apparently non-offset theorbo neck extension. -----Original Message----- From: William Samson <[2]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> To: David Van Edwards <[3]da...@vanedwards.co.uk> Cc: Lute List <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2013 1:53 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute painting Hi David, Looks like it's in the National Gallery of Ireland. [1][5]http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Pri nt_ Sales/Music%20and%20Dance/Saint%20Cecilia.aspx Looking at this reproduction, there are a couple of misty wingtips as if the guy who added the wings had changed his mind about where they should be at some point. The woman at the harpsichord has a halo (- later addition?). This may account for it's "St Cecilia" title. She looks very mature (and happy) in comparison with other depictions of the saint. As you say, the angels don't look particularly other-worldly. Great fun, this speculation! Bill From: David Van Edwards <[6]da...@vanedwards.co.uk> To: William Samson <[7]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Lute List <[8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013, 17:54 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute painting Dear Bill, Yes to all of that! Meanwhile if we wonder about alterations, do you notice that you can see right through one of the wings to the windowframe behind? Frankly the wings look rather out of period and style when taken together with the secular detailed nature of the clothing. The nice touch of the tuning hammer on the ironed cloth by the harpsichord also suggests the artist knew the other instrument too. It all looks very domestic, not quite how I imagine the angels behaving, and anyway where are the wings of the motherly soul playing harpsichord? Do you happen to know where it lives at the moment? Best wishes, David At 17:41 +0000 4/2/13, William Samson wrote: Hi David and Roman, Yes - The Rauwolf/Molinaer type what what first occurred to me, but the basses wouldn't be offset in that case. Another oddity is the very narrow, parallel-sided neck which wouldn't match Rauwolf (or any other lute) either. And yet, to me, the body of the lute is perfectly proportioned - Rose in the right place; bridge details correct - suggesting that the artist knew his lutes. So why the odd neck? I wonder if the painting was altered at some stage by another artist? Maybe it was originally a big 7c or 8c instrument and somebody decided to bring it 'up to date' with an extended neck and a load of diapasons. Anyway - I very much doubt if we've hit upon a new, hitherto unknown lute type. Best regards, Bill From: David Van Edwards <[2][9]da...@vanedwards.co.uk> To: William Samson <[3][10]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Lute List <[4][11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013, 15:07 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Lute painting Dear Bill, I assume one of these. [1][5][12]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif Sixtus Rauwolf Augsburg 1599 now in Copenhagen No. 93 This is the sole survivor of this type that Molenaer made famous. But your painting has the lower strings offset in in a strange, rather excessive, manner. Maybe a case of dodgy perspective rather than distortion. But if the offset is genuine then the upper pegbox must be something other, and to me unknown. Best wishes, David At 13:54 +0000 4/2/13, William Samson wrote: > I wonder what the layout of the upper head of this lute might be? > > [1][2][6][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif > > Artist Jacopo Vignale, early 17th Century. > > Bill > > -- > >References > > 1. [3][7][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >[4][8][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- The Smokehouse, 6 Whitwell Road, Norwich, NR1 4HB England. Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 Website: [5][9][16]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ -- The Smokehouse, 6 Whitwell Road, Norwich, NR1 4HB England. Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 Website: [10][17]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ -- References 1. [11][18]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif 2. [12][19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 3. [13][20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 4. [14][21]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. [15][22]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ -- References 1. [23]http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Print _Sales/Music%20and%20Dance/Saint%20Cecilia.aspx 2. mailto:[24]da...@vanedwards.co.uk 3. mailto:[25]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 4. mailto:[26]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. [27]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif 6. [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 7. [29]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 8. [30]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. [31]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 10. [32]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 11. [33]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif 12. [34]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 13. [35]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 14. [36]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 15. [37]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ -- -- References 1. http://www.lutevoice.com/luteiconography/Page%204.html 2. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 3. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Print_ 6. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk 7. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 8. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk 10. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 11. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 16. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 17. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 18. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif 19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 21. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 22. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 23. http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Print_Sales/Music%20and%20Dance/Saint%20Cecilia.aspx 24. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk 25. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 26. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 27. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif 28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 29. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 30. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 31. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 32. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 33. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif 34. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 35. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif 36. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 37. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
