Sam,
   > Articulation isn't necessarily deliberate - it can be an involuntary
   consequence of what > > > you call choppy playing,
   There is a specific term for the use of involuntary articulation:
   inarticulate playing.
   > However, much of what we take for granted has absolutely no
   historical precedent. When > articulated playing is regarded as a
   "period performance practice technique" and > > > > >
   "historically informed", whereas legato is called "totally modern", I
   take issue.
   Hardly. In the lute world, the very basis of right hand technique is
   founded on the strong-weak alternation of thumb-index (m-i in baroque
   playing). Granted, the built in strong-weak component of lute's right
   hand technique does not necessarily demand a long-short articulation,
   but it does suggest something like it to me. Fortunately, we are not
   confined to lute sources because other instruments go into much greater
   depth. Violin tutors from the likes of Geminiani, Leopold Mozart,
   Muffat, etc. reveal a bowing technique in which strategically placed
   re-takes were common, suggesting that a resultant silence
   d'articulation was endemic to conceptions of phrasing and metrical
   structure. Quantz tongued using the syllables ti, di, ri, did'll and
   tid'll. In numerous musical examples, the syllables are clearly laid
   out under the notes - and often quite difficult to execute. Johann
   Georg Tromlitz gives 13 rules for tonguing, and plenty of exceptions.
   Presumably, these and many other authors did not go into such detail
   because it was an unimportant part of the technique.
   These are only a few examples, and while the situation is not as
   clearly delineated as "articulated" vs. "legato," there is loads of
   evidence showing that articulation was a major concern of baroque
   performers. On the other hand, modern players are taught not to break
   the sound as a default. Opera singers are instructed to elide words as
   often as possible (This is why no one can understand an opera today
   even if its in the listener's native tongue.) Think about modern
   guitarists: one of the first things you're told is to work on making
   every right hand finger sound the same. Many classical guitar teachers
   even tell students that there should be no discernible difference
   between apoyando and tirando strokes.
   I'm not knocking the modern approach, but it is certainly built upon
   different aesthetic principles than baroque music. It would be wrong
   for a modern guitarist NOT to work on getting all fingers to sound
   even; that is part of modern technique and it is needed to properly
   present the aesthetic foundation of modern music. The player would not
   be serving a contemporary piece by playing it in a baroque manner. Of
   course, I believe the opposite to be true, too.
   Chris
   --- On Thu, 2/21/13, Sam Chapman <manchap...@gmail.com> wrote:

      Dear Howard et al,
      Isn't cutting a note short "articulating" by definition, regardless
   of
      what one does with all the other notes? Articulation isn't
   necessarily
      deliberate - it can be an involuntary consequence of what you call
      choppy playing, or it can be part of a carefully-planned performance
      (though the former is probably easier to justify historically).
      I don't think you've done justice to the "first rule" I mentioned in
   my
      post. Most authors write about holding down the fingers for as long
   as
      possible, that is, sustaining the notes for as long as possible.
   This
      is not the same as avoiding "stopping notes prematurely". Whether
   the
      rule relates to establishing good technique or creating a certain
   kind
      of sound world (or both) is up for debate. If we see it as refering
   to
      an aesthetic preference and take it literally then yes, it is
   evidence
      against stopping notes for whatever purpose.
      I have great respect for Paul O'Dette's playing and I have nothing
      against articulation per se. However, much of what we take for
   granted
      has absolutely no historical precedent. When articulated playing is
      regarded as a "period performance practice technique" and
   "historically
      informed", whereas legato is called "totally modern", I take issue.
      As far as I know, Mace is the only author to describe shortening
   notes
      (not specifically bass notes) on the lute. He considers this effect
   an
      ornament (along with Piano/Forte and Pauses, among other things). He
      writes "it will seem to speak the word tut" - perhaps we should use
      this ornament as often as we would say the word "tut" in a sentence?
      On several occasions Mace refers to his dissatisfaction with the
   long
      bass strings on the theorbo and their "snarling together".
   Tellingly,
      he does NOT suggest articulating the bass notes here as a solution.
      Instead he suggests playing the basses softer, though admits that
   this
      is not an ideal solution. He seems to regard this problem as
   intrinsic
      to the nature of the instrument.
      In other places, Mace praises playing which is "smooth and clean".
   On
      several occasions he describes a kind of over-legato effect: "Thus
      holding of your letters stopt, all the while, will give a very fine
      sound, or gingle beyond any other way of play". Other than the "tut"
      Mace never mentions anything about what we today call articulation,
   or
      indeed musical phrasing. Since he writes about virtually everything
      else, I think this is significant.
      Personally, I feel that many performers today overarticulate, and
   this
      can have the effect of introducing unpleasant accents and (moreover)
      reducing the volume/resonance of the instrument. The lute,
   especially
      when strung in gut, can be seen as a self-articulating instrument -
   why
      exaggerate this characteristic?
      I anticipate your reply!
      Sam
      On 21 February 2013 20:13, howard posner
   <[1][1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
      wrote:
      On Feb 21, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Sam Chapman
   <[2][2]manchap...@gmail.com>
      wrote:
      > There is far more evidence for a legato
      >   way of playing. One of the first rules we learn on the lute is
   to
      hold
      >   down the left hand fingers until they are needed for another
   note -
      >   doesn't this indicate a desire for sustaining the resonance of
   the
      >   instrument, rather than cutting it short (i.e. articulating).
        Cutting a note short amounts to "articulating" only if it's a
        contrast to other notes.  If all the notes are short, it's just
        choppy playing, and deliberately shortening a note is pointless if
        that note is surrounded by notes that are inadvertently shortened.
        So evidence of a preference for not inadvertently stopping notes
        prematurely through poor technique 1) is not evidence against
        preventing a bass note from ringing beyond its written value, and
   2)
        is not evidence against stopping stopping notes for expressive
        purposes.
        This doesn't settle the question of whether Weiss (for example)
        would have been perfectly satisfied with how his basses sounded
        without damping them.
        O'Dette is a master at controlling the ends of notes, and it's the
        reason he makes contrapuntal voice-leading dizzyingly obvious:  a
        note that comes after silence is
        emphasized.
        --
      To get on or off this list see list information at
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      Sam Chapman
      Oetlingerstrasse 65
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      (0041) 79 530 39 91
      --
   References
      1. mailto:[4]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
      2. mailto:[5]manchap...@gmail.com
      3. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

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   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=howardpos...@ca.rr.com
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