Joe,
No need to be offended. You raise some good points. Because of my
activities as a classical guitarist and lutenist, I must occasionally contend
with nails and lack of nails on each instrument. The biggest hurdle has been
baroque lute. Until relatively recently, I could not any kind of acceptable
sound out of it when I had nails, but after much effort, I think I've finally
cracked how to do it.
It is NOT true that playing with nails results in the individual strings of a
course being played one after another. This only happens if one assumes that
"playing with nails" simply means transferring modern classical guitar
technique to the lute in toto. I can get a full sound with nails, but I don't
play the lute like a classical guitar when the nails are present and I can't
play it the same way as I do without nails. Unfortunately, I have found few
models regarding what sort of technique is needed to play the lute with nails.
It's been completely a method of trial and error. That's a scary path to trend
when you've got a concert coming up! (For what it's worth, there are also no
real modern models regarding how to play baroque lute with a historically
accurate right hand position in general.)
Joe, I think you have some valid points which are well worth considering
seriously.
Chris
Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 12/12/13, Mayes, Joseph<ma...@rowan.edu> wrote:
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
To: "Bruno Correia"<bruno.l...@gmail.com>, "List LUTELIST"
<lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Thursday, December 12, 2013, 8:01 AM
OK good people, this will be my final
post on this subject. I grow weary of
the gratuitous condescension and infuriating belittlement -
"take the
trouble to learn how to do it," indeed.
On 12/11/13 9:26 PM, "Bruno Correia"<bruno.l...@gmail.com>
wrote:
2013/12/11 Mayes, Joseph<[1]ma...@rowan.edu>
Well, browse the recordings since mid
seventies.
Well, I was sort of fearing some
push-back from the "tap-dancing
barefoot" crowd. I don't know how
you can speak for most of the
lutenists out there. I certainly
only meant to speak for me.
No it doesn't. Lamentable only for those
who didn't have the trouble to
learn how to do it. Ask Hoppy, O'Dette,
North, Herringman, Lislevand,
Ferre, Barto (the list is too big...) and
many others how to do it.
It's not that difficult and the result is
pure joy.
Right back to - if Paul does it, it must be right. I wish
you joy of your
"pure joy."
Sweetness requires nails. The sound
- sort of a "thub, thub" one
achieves without them is so
unsatisfying as to be lamentable.
Fungus? That's pure speculation. About
Sor, check his method, no
research needed it's there.
Yes Sor advised against nails - the word I objected to was
"hated" I don't
see that in the method.
Tarrega played with nails until he
lost them due to fungus - He
convinced his late-in-life student
Pujol that flesh was the way to
go. Sor hated nails? I'd like to
see that research.
Rubish, Dolmetsch didn't study enough lute
praxis and Bream wasn't a
lutenist in the first place (actually he
never assumed he was - this is
documented in an interview). The stars do
not agree entirely with
themselves, but the important points
remain the same.
I guess you're more acquainted with "rubish" than am I. For
someone who
wasn't a lutenist, Bream recorded and performed quite a
lot.
As for "asking Hoppy," I think that
illustrates part of the problem
with the HIP folks. Because the
stars do it one way - that's the
right way. Bear in mind that
Dolmetch and Bream, et al thought they
had it right, too.
I thought this list was supposedly a place
to discuss lute performance
practice and not each ones taste. Some
people may prefer to play with
nails on carbon single strings and with
amplification. What does it
have to do with HIP?
Lute performance practice has everything to do with each
one's taste. I
assume that historical performance varied as greatly as
contemporary
performance - dictated by "each one's taste." But really, I
am as HIP as the
next fellow - I sound just like the paintings.
But, as I say, I'm not trying to
convince anyone of anything. Play
any way you want to, just leave the
dogma on the porch.
Joseph Mayes
________________________________________
From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
On
Behalf Of Bruno Correia [[4]bruno.l...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013
8:29 PM
To: List LUTELIST
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I
just noticed
It may sound good to
you, but not for most of the lutenists out
there.
Ask Hoppy about this
issue? Ok, you don't need to ask him, after all
you don't ride a horse
to the gig... Hey, I'd like to do that, the
traffic has been so bad
nowadays.
The most frequent word
to describe the lute's sound is sweetness!
How
can you have achieve it
with nails? Double strings also require that
both strings be pressed
at once and not one after the other. The
lute
is after all a sweet
instrument (specially with gut). Even in
classical
guitar tutors (19th-20th
century) the issue of nails was still
rolling
on. Sor hated it and
only tolerated Aguado because of his great
skill.
That's why Tarrega and
Pujol also avoided it (even if it was a
requirement due to the
high tension of the Torres guitar).
Going back: The sources
were just saying that many people were
careless
about their sound
production. In order to avoid it, what about
cutting
your nails once and a
while, washing your hands (daily if you can)?
2013/12/10 Mayes, Joseph
<[1][5]ma...@rowan.edu>
I play the lute,
archlute and vihuela with nails for the same
reason
that I
play the
classical guitar with nails: because it sounds better!
Of course, by
that I mean it sounds better to me. Nails give the
attack a
precision that
flesh does not. It also comes closer, IMHO to the
sound
usually described
in historical sources as desirable on lute -
silvery,
tinkling, etc.
Many sources tell
us not to use nails - which they wouldn't have
bothered to
do if people were
not doing it that way.
I don't play with
flesh, I don't ride my horse to the gig, and I
don't
attend any
bear-bating.
My $.02
Joseph mayes
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Bruno Figueiredo
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interpretac,ao
historicamente informada no alaude e
teorba.
Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de
Janeiro.
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